Life expectancy for modern Ferraris?

This has already happend. The 80's early 90's GM, Ford, Chrysler products, Benz, BMW with early computer controlled injection systems, are unfortunately pretty much paper weights.

Unless the owner is willing to sink a significant investment into a stand alone engine management system, the cars are pretty much dead in the water. No parts are available to service the stock system. Everyday, all day I hit the road block, and have to inform the client their dream car is dead.

I have an 84 Benz 450sc sitting at the shop. Needs and ecu. Still hunting, 4 months later..

 

Take it to Wheeler Dealers. They can fix anything automotive.

 

Buy a 1987 or 1988 of any model. The last years of mostly analog = fuel - air + spark, it will run, unless you just want to look at it. (Buy a poster) Or be prepared to pay or DIY.

I was patient, it took me 4+ years to find the right car - it's a toy, I can wait.
Alden

 

Consumer cars will not be worth saving once the parts supply is exhausted, but really popular and valuable cars will get aftermarket support.

I remember when EFI was introduced, there were articles about, "The Death of the Shade Tree Mechanic."

Now I know of some redneck car guys who can flash ECU's with a laptop and a chip burner.

 

Call up Bosch or Continental and tell them you want a license for their ECU code and let us know what they say. Even the OEMs will not get the rights and they spend hundreds of millions of dollars a year with them. Aside from IP roadblocks, there's privacy and safety concerns. Zero incentive for tier providers to play ball. However, the upcoming full electric vehicles have tier suppliers with a different business model. Rimac, for instance, is partnering with several hyper car OEMs to supply torque vectoring and 4-motor controllers but this is useless to the existing car population in question.

 

I heard all of these same discussions before I got my 612, in 2008. 11 years later, still working great. So I'm not all that worried about it.

 

Forza article on F13 Buyers Guide. Great car you better get the extended warranty.

 

It's not just about Ferraris, Lamborghinis, etc. John Deere, Kubota, etc. also suffer from the same. So, exotic or tractor, unless you can diagnose and re-program an ECU, just give it up at end of warranty.

Then for me, the hot rod side kicks in: fuel, spark and circulating water. Those are the fundamentals. You can bypass everything else to get guages working, etc.

 

The only thing I worried about with the 360 and 430 was the F1 transmissions. I've kind of gotten over that as there are so many out there that the prospect of used spares and knowledge to fix them year later is going to be better than many of the systems on previous models that have simply become a total loss if there is an issue (ie: the 456 tranny). I do worry about the electronic brains and their magic smoke, but hope that as everything else has done as we go forward, there are some geeks out there that will get into the systems and back engineer workarounds or complete replacements.

 

I have found that there are "new car" and "old car" people. The "new car" people don't want to own anything out of warranty, and the "old car" people don't want to spend the money to buy something new (or, to be fair, prefer the older cars).

"New car" people take the car to the dealer and expect it to be fixed and returned to "as new" condition. "Old car" people go to an independent (or a few dealers who understand old cars), source parts, find rebuilders, and generally do whatever it takes to keep the car working, even if it is not exactly like new.

Nothing wrong with either one, but both come from very different directions.

 

IMO... a modern Ferrari is when you can't work on them yourself anymore without all the dyno crap because of the technical sophistication components on the cars now. IMO a modern Ferrari was generated after 1999, starting with the 360.

 

Ferrari SpA in one of their more recent annual reports broke down the lifespan/maintenance of existing Ferraris. They state that up until 20 years the dealer can service them adequately. After 20 years Classiche comes into play.
Without knowing anything I say BS. Or, if they really will maintain it, any part will cost more than the car's value to source through remanufacturing from scratch. Sure they can cast a new 250 GTO head. After all they brag about having all the old info on hand. BUT I will bet you it is several hundred thousand dollars. Sure, in a 40-50 million dollar car that is "reasonable". But what about a 458 head 25 years from now? 10X the vehicle value?
More to the point, my dealer who IS a Classiche center can't even get brake pads for a 328!!! Are you kidding me? This isn't exactly a rare car. Classiche tech said his last attempt was with VW Fox brake pads. He was told that it has purportedly the same size/design brake set-up. Pad bolted right up to the holes, but was the wrong diameter! Six months in and still looking for brake pads!! Or, take for example their experience w/F40s. Apparently short of > $100 on eBay - if you can find one- oil filters NOT available. Tech has to rig up an adapter to put another size filter in place. The good news is, he can.
The sad truth is that if oil filters and brake pads - items which are normal to wear out and need replacing are not being produced. What are the chances of more "durable" parts being around. The funny part is, they HAVE electrochroamatic roofs for the 599 Superamerica available. Probably because they want 25K and guys like someone at my dealership who needed one said, "no way" at that number.
NET: holding my 458 for "eternity" may be a foolish AND costly proposition.
Best

 

Your not worried about it, until you are.

 

You are all thinking too much inside the box.

If you have the original part, have a machine shop look at making a replacement..

Probably quicker and cheaper.

 

Yeah, but with Fcars there's a strange desire for owners to want everything original Ferrari. I think an owner being okay with a billet block, heads, etc, won't happen anytime soon...even though it would better than the original cast ones.

I'd love to own a 458 in 30 years that is sold for cheap. I'd have no problems customizing it...aftermarket ECU, engine internals, brakes, etc.

 

And that becomes the question to answer, 30 years.

I had a Belarus tractor and was not able to source a throw-out bearing on a clutch rebuild, so had a machine shop build up the old one.

If you were restoring an original 250 GTO would anyone quibble that the car does not match original specifications to 100%. Think of tires and rims for example.

If a valve cover had to be re-done....

I have worked with many very gifted machinists and their work is exemplary. 39 examples for a 250 GTO, where will you fine replacement parts?

 

Electronic brakes and steering....what could go wrong ?

 

The original NSX has a Rube Golberg designed ABS system that is notorious for failing. When it works it feels funky. There are fixes to either solve it until the next time or permanently bypass it. Mine has failed after 14k miles. I just drive accordingly and ignore the idiot light. Its not a race car and I dont race it street or otherwise. At 80% of its ability its still a blast.
Full drive by wire on a soon to be "vintage" Ferrari ? No thanks.
I consider the 512BB the last of the real analog Ferraris.
I'd eventually want a CS or a Scud but this situation lurks.

 

My 308 used Mercedes pads. Cant remember the model. 328s different ?

 

I'd love to meet the machinist who could mill out an ECU or traction control module. Computerized components with proprietary software just can't be duplicated without an extraordinary effort. Look at the time and trouble 360trev has expended on the 20 year old, fairly simple 360 ECU.

I visited Bruce Anderson's Maranello Autosport in Eustis, FL a few days ago and discussed this very topic. He expressed doubt in the longevity of the modern Ferrari. To loosely quote him, he said "when the spare parts are gone, those cars are going to sit." He may be wrong but he's got 20+ years tinkering with these beasts.

 

Very valid and interesting points made here and all over this thread.

I have a different opinion, I believe the market will eventually adapt, because all cars are now extremely complex in terms of electronics, not just italian exotic supersports and hyper cars. Your average Sentra, Mustang or Corolla are no different. Until 2017, I had an Alfa Romeo as a daily driver and a mechanic told me it had 137 different electronic systems. BMWs and Mercedes now are only sold with LED screens, no needles, NOTHING analog.

If in a couple of decades all Ferraris will sit because they’ll be impossible to service, so will every other car. And I just don’t see that happening.

If you watch most car restauration programs on TV, namely one of my favorites called “Car SOS” on National Geographic, you’ll witness that today it is impossible to find parts for most pre-1980s cars, and they were all analog. You either find a car that has been scrapped for parts or you’ll have to find someone to manufacture a new part from scratch. And that’s what they do and cars are rolling every weekend out there.

Analog cars are no walk in the park either. Once the manufacturer stops making spare parts and the years go by, all owners face a struggle for parts, analog or digital.

I think the fallacy here is predicting the future and getting stuck in the present in terms of solutions. Solutions don’t stop as cars evolve. Technology won’t get stuck in the present as everything else evolves and gets more complicated. And electric cars are the wave of the future, they’ll be even more electronic and complex than ICE cars. There will be solutions to match the growing complexity, if not by anything else, because the auto industry won’t die when spare parts end, and there will be money to be made when modern cars become vintage.

Kind regards,

Nuno.

 

Imo, the life expectancy of most Ferrari’s is....indefinite. Meaning, until it’s flooded, burned or crashed beyond repair, or a catastrophic mechanical failure (engine grenading).
Otherwise, the marque is so valuable, someone will likely always keep them running.

Although I have my concerns with replacement electronic components....leaky caps, tin whiskers, etc.and intellectual property rights preventing replica parts.