Dead Immobiliser | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Dead Immobiliser

Discussion in '456/550/575' started by 456enthusiast, Oct 28, 2018.

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  1. moretti

    moretti Five Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Nov 1, 2003
    58,226
    Australia
    Full Name:
    John
    You should contact Michael at immofixer.com and see what he can do for you, he's pretty much the authority on Ferrari 456/355/360 immobiliser systems and is the guy who worked out how to decode the PIN, repair immobiliser and properly program the fobs etc. Sorted out immobiliser systems for many owners and Ferrari dealers as well
     
    456enthusiast likes this.
  2. Cribbj

    Cribbj Formula 3

    Luv your sig line. KUDOS!!!!
     
    456enthusiast likes this.
  3. 456enthusiast

    456enthusiast Karting

    Jul 23, 2011
    98
    UK / Italy
    #28 456enthusiast, Oct 30, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2018
    I do trust you, just trying some quick (and local) solutions before sending the fob overseas :) . If i bring the fob to a Ferrari garage i assume they could check it for me (?).

    I'll try pressing the button closer to the rear window (i take is the rear right seat you're talking about ?)

    Thanks again
     
  4. 456enthusiast

    456enthusiast Karting

    Jul 23, 2011
    98
    UK / Italy
    Hi there, spoke to Michael, he was very kind and helpful. He suggested to unplug the siren module, he reckons that its battery spilling might have caused the immobilizer problem I'm having. Also it might have blown the immobilizer fuse (if the car bears any). Does anyone know if the 456 has a dedicated fuse for the immobilizer and where is it located?

    Thanks
     
  5. gobble

    gobble Formula 3
    Owner Regional Sponsor

    Jan 29, 2010
    1,646
    Milwaukee, WI
    Full Name:
    Ferrarifobs.com
    Michael knows the system better than anyone, but I don't think he would have told you to look for a fuse given your issue. If the immobilizer wasn't getting power you wouldn't see a flashing LED.
     
  6. 456enthusiast

    456enthusiast Karting

    Jul 23, 2011
    98
    UK / Italy
    Didn't write that he told me to look for a fuse to solve my issue; he said that the battery spilling might have blown a fuse and was gonna check if my car bears any fuses for the immobilizer. Though I won't go any further on this 'cause I don't think it's fair to him to share his indications on line (after all he did read this thread and if he wanted to contribute publically he would have done so).

    Don't mean to be harsh :)
     
  7. 456enthusiast

    456enthusiast Karting

    Jul 23, 2011
    98
    UK / Italy
    As it could be useful to somebody else in future : the fob disabled the immobilizer after i unplugged the siren cable as Michael (immofixer.com) suggested.

    Really appreciated the time everyone put into answering this thread, thank you all (expecially gobble ;-) you're all my friends but Michael has just become my personal hero (now i stop writing as i need to go worshipping his picture :)
     
    Qavion, Tim Riley and bergxu like this.
  8. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
    Project Master

    Oct 29, 2005
    4,241
    Gibraltar
    Full Name:
    360trev
    Gents,

    I'm more commonly found in the 360/430 section of the forum but I've completely reverse engineered the Bosch Immobilizer software which actually resides within the Bosch Ignition ECU's (this is the bit which disables the engine from starting), the other immobilizer boxes use an embedded Motorola processor which store the pairing keys for the fobs and then send on authorization message (picked up by a 3rd box) which sends an OK to authorize message over a comms line. Its entirely done in software.

    Reversing this back to fully deactivate it was actually a lot more tricky to do that it would first seem but I did it (!) and now have a solution for the 360, a world first infact to fully deactivate it in software. I've never been happy with the replacement boxes which send the OK to authorize type approach since if your immobilizer is failing anyway it still won't work. I'm confident I can do this 100% elimination patch for the 456 and 550/575 owners too if there is sufficient demand.

    On the 360 the ignition ecus (one for each bank) run embedded Siemens C167 embedded processors and the software can be modified to entirely eliminate/bypass the immobilizer 100% out of the firmware. This means you can remove all the immobilizer boxes out of the car and still start the engine. Less to go wrong and much more reliable. This is the route I've now fully developed and tested (and there are even these dreaded immobilizer boxes on 360 Challenge Racing Cars which I've also done too...).

    As the cars get older I am seeing many more cars with immobilizer issues so I literally bit the bullet and invested the many hours of my own personal time to work out a full reliable solution. I repeat this is a software solution, no additional boxes are required and you can revert back at any time with a reflash.

    The downsides are ofcourse you can obviously then hotwire the car (like in the 80's) so instead of leaving it like that I've also done a small patch to the firmware to incorporate an (optional) new replacement alarm system which instead of using the siren sends a notification directly to your smart phone so you get the siren on your phone (wherever you are in the world) and secondary phone (if you so wish can be configured).

    I've also taken the liberty to implement keyless entry too (again configurable on your smart phone app) so as you approach the car the doors unlock and as you get 2m away they auto lock and engine is re-immobilized. This can either be done entirely wirelessly using Bluetooth or wifi (no fobs to loose, its all digital in your phone). Again its all configurable on the app. This is coming soon to the 360 so if its desired on the 456 I would be interested in numbers.

    Since I'm currently contemplating buying a second Ferrari I've been looking at what to buy and I've always fancied a 4 seater so the FF, 612 and 456 are all in my radar. If I buy a 456 I'll do it anyway ;)

    I think I may even have a 456 firmware dump somewhere, I'll have to take a look...
     
    SaifC and bergxu like this.
  9. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    26,292
    socal
    This post needs to have its own thread so people see it. Title should be something like

    "Do you want your immobilizer gone for good?" I have a 550 and I want my immobilizer gone gone gone! I'm happy to pay you or be your test subject. Just let me know when you want to exorcise this demon from my Ferrari.
     
    bergxu likes this.
  10. 456enthusiast

    456enthusiast Karting

    Jul 23, 2011
    98
    UK / Italy
    Hi Y'all

    An update:

    I have called a local car electrician, he removed the siren module, opened it and cleaned the board (which was corroded due to the internal batteries leakage). Now, before putting two new batteries in, he told me to try if the siren works (he says that if it doesn’t there is no point in putting new batteries in, the unit just need to be replaced).

    I plugged the siren in: the doors unlock and the car cranks up (before cleaning the module the immobiliser wouldn’t respond due to the siren module board corrosion).

    This is the only good point though.

    Bad points: the alarm led still remains on after i crank up the engine; also there is no beep sound when locking/unlocking the doors.

    My question to you experts: is it possible that the led and “no beep” malfunctions are due to the fact that the siren module i plugged has got no batteries?
     
  11. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    37,985
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Some of our pros did that for while, but they almost always came back. So they just swap them out now. There is a Corvette siren that works, too, but sometimes the alarm does not go off when it should, even though you get the correct beeps when using the remote.
     
  12. gobble

    gobble Formula 3
    Owner Regional Sponsor

    Jan 29, 2010
    1,646
    Milwaukee, WI
    Full Name:
    Ferrarifobs.com
    Pros did what Terry? Ran the system without a siren battery?
     
  13. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    37,985
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    No, they now throw out the old siren and put in a new one.
     
  14. CCRan

    CCRan Rookie

    Sep 13, 2011
    1
    Kingston
    Full Name:
    Christopher Charles
    Sorry to hijack but I need some Fobs programmed and a little alarm info for the 2003 360 Spider I just bought. I understand you are the guy Gobble and could not for the life of me find a way to pm you. Thx
     
  15. gobble

    gobble Formula 3
    Owner Regional Sponsor

    Jan 29, 2010
    1,646
    Milwaukee, WI
    Full Name:
    Ferrarifobs.com
    You probably can't PM me since you only have 1 post on the forum. I think they restrict it to members who have something of a history.

    I don't think they'll let me post a link. But do a google search for FerrariFobs and you'll find me.
     
  16. 456enthusiast

    456enthusiast Karting

    Jul 23, 2011
    98
    UK / Italy
    I understand Corvette and GM sirens don't work properly on European built models. Am i wrong ?
     
  17. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    37,985
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Do not know.
     
  18. 456enthusiast

    456enthusiast Karting

    Jul 23, 2011
    98
    UK / Italy
    Do you think is possible that the lack of batteries in the module i connected triggers the led light? As for the "no beep" , On teh 456 Manual I've read that the UK models (like my car) come with a sort of "silent siren" (an oximoron :). Basically in the UK the sirens are only allowed to beep if somebody is breaking in your car :)
     
  19. gobble

    gobble Formula 3
    Owner Regional Sponsor

    Jan 29, 2010
    1,646
    Milwaukee, WI
    Full Name:
    Ferrarifobs.com
    I believe a dead siren battery will result in the led staying lit so lack of a battery would likely do the same.

    The Euro immobilizer goes through a different sequence of clicks when I test them compared to a US immobilizer, so there are differences apart from the frequency. I don't have sound hooked up to my tester (maybe I should) so I don't know if that results in no beeps when you click the fobs.
     
  20. 456enthusiast

    456enthusiast Karting

    Jul 23, 2011
    98
    UK / Italy
    Hi there Gobble, I don't mind the no beep thing, but I definitely want to switch the damn led light off. I guess i'll ask the guy to put the new batteries in and see if that works.
     
  21. gobble

    gobble Formula 3
    Owner Regional Sponsor

    Jan 29, 2010
    1,646
    Milwaukee, WI
    Full Name:
    Ferrarifobs.com
    From another source:

    If your alarm LED stays on while driving, it's time to change the batteries within the unit.

    Unfortunately Ferrari did not make this serviceable. Howevere, if you are handy you can open it and fix the battery problem permanently.

    The alarm module is in the trunk in the 360. You have to first remove the cloth panel to the right as you look in (keep those screws with that piece so you don't mix them with the others), and then the large panel dead ahead.

    After these panels are removed you'll see a white plastic vapor barrier. You'll have to cut it in the upper right to access the alarm module that is just behing the frame on the right. See pictures: not my car BTW. I can't locate the ones I took but I will and will post later.

    You'll need to turn off your battery switch first, but before you do so make sure you have your radio code handy!

    Take a 10 mm ratchet box wrench (makes it easier) and loosen both nuts but don't remove them. Slide the module out and unplug the connnector.

    Now here's where you have to be clever. The module is sealed but it is two glued pieces. You have to carefully cut all around the center line until you separate both halfs of the module. Be very careful cause you can't go into it too deeply! Use a sharp box cutter or equivalent.

    After a few minutes of cutting, you'll start to notice the blade sinking into the seam more and more. As you go, use the tip more so, since it digs down into the seam a bit better. After a while, the unit will start to come apart. Take your time and don't rush it - you don't want to slip with the razor and cut too far into the unit and risk damaging the components inside.

    When separated, lift off the back half and look to see if there are two round batteries there. If you do not have the round batteries you have the earlier model with irreplaceable batteries. I don't think there is any way to update that unit.

    In that case you'll most likely have to replace the whole module which runs between $300 - $400! Ouch

    If you have the round, flat batteries set into the top cover, note how they align with the sping clips on the circuit board. Mark the circuit board in pencil near each spring clip with the appropriate + and - mark. It is very important you mark them correctly or you'll cook the circuit board when you connect the new external battery.

    Remove the batteries carefully, and completely wash and rub off all the corrosion from the inside of the cover and the batteries with water only! Set that piece aside then and make sure it fully dries. recycle the batteries.

    Wash off with a tissue and water any corrosion on the circuit board and on the spring clips.

    Thoroughly clean the spring clips with a very fine sand paper, and then clean off.

    The two button batteries each supply 3.6 volts. They are rated at 120 mAh (milliamp hours). There are two batteries in series, and, therefore, the circuit board runs off 7.2 volts.

    We are going to replace these two batteries with one external rechargeable 9 volt NiCD battery. NiCD batteries can withstand more charge cycles without negatively impacting their ability to provide power.

    I bought the 9v NiCad rechargeable battery from Radio Shack #23-448 for around $10.00, a package of R.S. 9V battery snap connectors #270-325 (there were 5 in the pack. If anyone wants one I'll mail it.), and two (2) 12" long two-wire trailer hitch connectors at an auto parts store.

    I used two-wire trailer hitch couplings avaialble from Radio Shack or an auto parts store. This then provides a means to break the connection if a future future battery failure requiring replacement.

    With the two 12" trailer connectors in hand (there is a red and a white wire usually), push together the rubber connectors where the red lead runs into a connector and the clip is not exposed. What I am getting at here is that you want the red connector (+) shielded. The white can be exposed when disconnected but this is ground!

    Once that is together cut off from both ends the remaining connectors (cut back a few inches so you can reuse those for other projects). Strip the red and white and each side back about 1/4".

    Have a 25 watt soldering iron on and ready, and tin all four of the exposed leads. You will be soldering the leads from one side of the wire to the connector for the 9 volt battery and the other side gets soldered to the circuit board. You'll need shrink tubing to cover the soldered leads.

    Each of the spring clips on the circuit board has 3 prongs that stick up. Very carefully tin with solder the spring clips. make sure there are extremely clean so the solder flows easily and sticks. No cold soldering here or you'll have to do this all over.

    Drill about a 3/16" hole in the cover but away from the area that the 4 small leads protrude to connect to the factory harness. Feed the red/white leads from the cable you soldered to to the battery connector linto that hole you just drilled.

    Very carefuly solder the red lead across all three spring clips for the + terminal and then the white across all three spring clips for the - terminal. make absolutely you are soldering to the correct spring clips that correlate to the polarity pencil marks you put there.

    Reseal the alarm box by means of a 5 minute setting epoxy.epoxy. Put a little bead around the edge where you cut and clamp or weight the module for 15 or 20 minutes.

    Seal up the hole to keep the unit sealed.

    The trailer wire leads leave about 18 inches of wiring which is enough to feed the lead up to install the 9 volt battery up top near the brake fluid reservoir. This enables future battery replacements. Use superlock fasteners (Radio Shack sells them) to attach the battery in place.

    Plug the siren into the harness and with the external battery attached, turn the power to the car back on. You should hear the chirp and that tells you did it roght.

    Secure the battery in a good place. I placed the battery up top onto a metal brace that supports the A/C recharge ports.

    Once you have done that, turn the ignition key to "on", give the car 10 or 15 seconds to relearn before starting the motor, set in the radio code, and all should be well.

    Put everything back and you will be pleased.

    The little red alarm LED staying on while driving should be a thing of the past.

    BTW, you can do this same to the 355! The module is the same.
     
  22. 456enthusiast

    456enthusiast Karting

    Jul 23, 2011
    98
    UK / Italy
  23. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    37,985
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Note that different European countries have different requirements for alarm systems. They are not the same across all of Europe. Here is a chart showing how they work where. Country specific alarm kits were used to meet these requirements.



    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  24. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 20, 2015
    11,484
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    Ian Riddell
    Please let us know how you go. Hopefully it won't take another 9 months to resolve this issue ;)

    Do you still have problems with your seat recline? It sounds like a faulty potentiometer, but we better start a new message thread for this one.
     
  25. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 20, 2015
    11,484
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    Ian Riddell
    Are you sure about this, Terry? Assuming the 456 alarm system is the same as the 550's, looking at the wiring diagrams, the power source for the immobiliser is the battery terminal board (above the footwell relay panel) which is depowered with the battery switch*. As I understand it, when you immobilise the car, the immobiliser ECU sends a signal to the siren to tell it not to respond to the car battery being cut off (and the siren remembers this). The siren is probably still powered by its internal battery after this, but it will not respond to the normal alarm triggers (it doesn't know what the rest of the car is doing). The siren also gets its (car) power from the battery terminal board.

    550 Alarm System Wiring Diagram

    *Technically speaking, the battery board is never disconnected from the battery. The battery cutout switch isolates the chassis earth from the negative battery terminal.
     

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