Can you convert FF to RWD? | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Can you convert FF to RWD?

Discussion in 'FF/Lusso' started by Kaizu, Jun 16, 2017.

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  1. uhn2000

    uhn2000 Formula 3

    Oct 15, 2011
    2,108
    Toronto
    Full Name:
    Joe
    Just buy a Lusso T, I loved it! And I have a V12awd, you will only miss the sound and after a while the 8 sounds fantastic .
     
    635CSI likes this.
  2. otakki

    otakki Formula 3

    Mar 24, 2016
    1,623
    #27 otakki, Aug 21, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2019
    Reviving this thread! In the wake of the recent thread on "PTU design flaw," changing it to RWD might have become a worthy proposition for those who prefers to daily drive the FF/GTC4V12 and/or to keep it long-term.

    Again the same link to the video as posted earlier on this thread:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtYDxb4-49s
    The guy reportedly also owns a Murcielago that has been converted to RWD. There are other DDE (Daily Driven Exotics) youtube videos of the same FF doing burnouts and donuts.
     
    Sonicsound and crinoid like this.
  3. Darkshear

    Darkshear Karting

    Mar 31, 2019
    76
    Tampa, FL
    Full Name:
    Kalon Dillon
    Edmond Mondi's RWD FF (I think he got rid of it recently?) was converted by Avant-Garde Xotics I believe.
     
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  4. otakki

    otakki Formula 3

    Mar 24, 2016
    1,623
    Maybe it's time to contact Avant-Garde Xotics and see what's involved in the conversion. I wonder how they go about remapping the ECU, if it's done at all.
     
  5. 635CSI

    635CSI F1 Rookie

    Jun 26, 2013
    3,001
    London UK
    Full Name:
    Graham
    #30 635CSI, Aug 27, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2019
    Err, I would like to state that (even as a died in the wool T owning RWD purist who is aware of rare front PTU issues being out there) I suspect this course of action to be madness. :eek:
     
  6. otakki

    otakki Formula 3

    Mar 24, 2016
    1,623
    Madness indeed. Based on an interview video with Ferrari when the FF first came out on the high-complexity of the ecu algorithm with the PTU in place, I highly doubt any non-factory tuning shop will have the resources and capabilities to properly manage the ecu on a car without the PTU. Depending on the similarities between the FF/GTC4 and F12, they might be able to get away by swapping a F12 ECU onto the thing and call it a day; even then, I doubt it's that simple. Maybe the guy just decided to drive around with instrument clusters constantly lit up like fireworks with error messages.
     
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  7. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

    May 29, 2019
    6,023
    Hopefully some place nice.
    Full Name:
    A.B
    I'm sure it could be done - and I'm sure it would be a bit costly. And I'm 100% sure that the value of the car will plummet like an anvil dropped from a crane.

    Also, aren't the FF in rwd only when in Sport? I know for sure it is if you put it in ESC OFF.

    That being said, I have not heard of anybody who's a spirited dri er say anything bad about the 4wd system. Not sure where you get that. If you drive the FF fast and hard, it will disengage the front wheels.
     
    otakki likes this.
  8. otakki

    otakki Formula 3

    Mar 24, 2016
    1,623
    Didn't know this. How did you find out? I thought the PTU is engaged in gear 1-4 regardless of the mode. I would like to know if that's the same in Sport because I don't feel comfortable driving in ESC OFF mode. I guess it will be easy to find out when the car is off the ground on a 4-points lift, by going through the modes and go from gears 1-4 to higher gears and see if the front wheels are turning. Another way is to try that with summer tires on an empty icy parking lot in the winter and see.
     
    350MH83 likes this.
  9. 350MH83

    350MH83 Formula 3

    Jul 11, 2014
    1,104
    Denmark
    Full Name:
    Max
    so I just found the following statement on a website (and by all means, that doesnt mean it is true...): "When in Snow, Wet, and Comfort modes, the GTC4Lusso makes the PTU from its 4RM EVO system available for extra traction. Otherwise, it’s completely off in Sport and ESC Off". https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/five-crazy-technologies-in-the-2018-ferrari-gtc4lusso/
     
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  10. Grant B

    Grant B Rookie

    May 24, 2022
    5
    Full Name:
    Grant Beaty
    So has anyone tried this? What happens if you just unplug the PTU? I assume stability control would fail, but I never use that anyway.

    I'm considering getting an FF, but really won't want an AWD car. Especially one where the AWD system is prone to failure. I would drive an FF very hard and probably break it quite quickly.

    Ideally I'd remove the PTU + axles and put them on a shelf until it's time to sell the car.

    The GTC4Lusso Ts look cool, but are a lot more money for a car I might put in to a wall on a track somewhere. Also no V12 sound, which is most of the reason to get a Ferrari IMO.

    Thanks for any help.
     
    SVR likes this.
  11. Grant B

    Grant B Rookie

    May 24, 2022
    5
    Full Name:
    Grant Beaty
    Does anyone know where I can find a wiring diagram of the PTU? If it has its own module that communicates with the rest of the car via CAN bus, it probably wouldn't be too hard to build an emulator.
     
  12. Grant B

    Grant B Rookie

    May 24, 2022
    5
    Full Name:
    Grant Beaty
    I contacted Eurocharged and they believe they can solve this in the ECU tune.
     
    SVR likes this.
  13. 350MH83

    350MH83 Formula 3

    Jul 11, 2014
    1,104
    Denmark
    Full Name:
    Max
    At the end, the PTU is 100% controlled by ECU. So as long as somebody is able to code the ECUs so as not to send any clutch request to the PTU, it should work. It will probably be very easy to do with somebody who was part of the development team for the PTU software. Very difficult for everybody else to reverse engineer it.
     
  14. Grant B

    Grant B Rookie

    May 24, 2022
    5
    Full Name:
    Grant Beaty
    Hmm, are you the PTU is controlled by the ECU? Vivid Racing (another FF tuner) tells me there's a separate transmission control unit that controls the PTU.
     
  15. 350MH83

    350MH83 Formula 3

    Jul 11, 2014
    1,104
    Denmark
    Full Name:
    Max
    There is definitely a separate transmission CU that gives the instruction to each of the clutches. But all in all this CU will take its orders from the main ECU, as the main ECU needs to compile data from accelerometers, speed sensors, steering wheel angle sensors, etc in order to decide how much of the torque is to be sent to each of the front wheels.
     
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  16. andyrichter

    andyrichter Karting

    Jul 18, 2017
    186
    Oahu
    This would be a cool project. I PMed you with the info I have available.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  17. dgoldenz94

    dgoldenz94 Formula Junior

    Apr 13, 2020
    542
    Las Vegas
    Full Name:
    David Gold
    One of the two shops in NJ that does the PTU repairs told me they were working on a RWD conversion. Can’t remember the shop name off top of my head. That was a year ago not sure what current status of the project is.
     
  18. Grant B

    Grant B Rookie

    May 24, 2022
    5
    Full Name:
    Grant Beaty
    Thanks. If you remember the shop's name please post it here and I'll give them a call.
     
  19. dgoldenz94

    dgoldenz94 Formula Junior

    Apr 13, 2020
    542
    Las Vegas
    Full Name:
    David Gold
    i think it’s Exoticars USA after consulting the google machine.
     
    Grant B likes this.
  20. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
    41,299
    ESP
    Full Name:
    Bas
    Not a lot, but I would think the computer constantly giving PTU errors would be quite annoying. ECU needs to be unlocked and told to ignore PTU warnings.

    I love modifying cars but not sure I'd go through the trouble of this...
     
  21. leon2

    leon2 Rookie

    Dec 27, 2019
    16
    Sydney, Australia
    Full Name:
    Leon Chan
    How did the OP go?
     

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