355 left headlight not popping up. Possible cause? | FerrariChat

355 left headlight not popping up. Possible cause?

Discussion in '348/355' started by SA Mike, Aug 31, 2019.

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  1. SA Mike

    SA Mike Karting

    May 25, 2019
    52
    Texas
    Full Name:
    Michael Martinez
    So I’m ready to take the car to get it inspected and I do a pre rest of all the items and the left headlight not popping up but right does. Any ideas to the possible cause?

    Note: when I first got the car I tried the lights and the right one came up quick and the left slowly came up.
     
  2. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    12,661
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    It means the motor driving that side is weak, and now dead. $600 will fix it.
     
  3. SA Mike

    SA Mike Karting

    May 25, 2019
    52
    Texas
    Full Name:
    Michael Martinez
    Thank you sir!
     
  4. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    12,661
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    There is a left, and a right side motor. Even the dealer gets it wrong so make sure you buy the right one by matching it up.
     
  5. SA Mike

    SA Mike Karting

    May 25, 2019
    52
    Texas
    Full Name:
    Michael Martinez
  6. ClydeM

    ClydeM F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 4, 2003
    10,460
    Wayne, NJ
    Full Name:
    Clyde E. McMurdy
    Mine was acting up a couple months ago. Probably from lack of use. One wouldn't come up & then I had the winking headlight syndrome. I cleaned the connectors, tried the column switch a few times & both popped up. A few more times just to make sure they still worked over the next couple days and they are still working today.
     
  7. SA Mike

    SA Mike Karting

    May 25, 2019
    52
    Texas
    Full Name:
    Michael Martinez
    Thanks! I’ll try that and also check the fuses and relays before I buy the motor. Can’t hurt.
     
  8. EastMemphis

    EastMemphis Formula 3
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    May 25, 2019
    1,717
    Memphis, TN
    Full Name:
    John
    Before you plunk down $600 for a new motor, you might pull it out and bring it to a motor repair shop. Most cities have at least one. It could be something as simple as replacing the brushes or cleaning the contacts. Lots of simple things can stop an electric motor. Most anything can be repaired by a reasonably competent tech.
     
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  9. jeffdavison

    jeffdavison F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jul 29, 2002
    2,544
    Suwanee Georgia
    Full Name:
    Jeffrey Davison
    #9 jeffdavison, Aug 31, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2019
    ernie likes this.
  10. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jun 11, 2004
    10,625
    CT
    Full Name:
    John Kreskovsky
    How about starting with the obvious. Check the connections. Measure the impedance of the left and right motors for comparison. make sure voltage is getting to the motor.
    Think. Diagnose in a logical sequence.
     
  11. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    12,661
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    It's the protection diode that blows out on these things.
     
  12. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 20, 2015
    11,484
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    Ian Riddell
    Mike, fixing headlight motors is one of those jobs where you have to weigh up effort vs cost. If you're lucky, the fix may cost next to nothing: A few dollars spent on cleaning products, grease and sealant, but you may spend days trying to diagnose the problem. If you're not lucky, you may go to a lot of bother only to find that there is a broken component which is not repairable.

    Because your headlight operation slowly degraded over time, it's less likely to be a just a fuse, diode or relay problem alone. By the way, the diode is buried under a mess of sealant which has to be carefully scraped away.

    If you're unlucky, you may find that the plastic gears are crumbling and, as far as I know, there are no replacements for these (unlike Corvette and Lotus Esprit headlight assemblies).

    Anyway, you'll probably find lots of message threads with photos on the forum showing how to carry out the repairs. Be sure to protect your paintwork with several layers of masking tape on the headlight pod and surrounding areas. It's not always a small job and you will probably need to lift your car off the ground to get access to the various components. When playing with the electrics, make sure your fingers are clear of moving parts. The idiot salesman of my previous car nearly took off my finger when he retracted the headlights without warning.

    Here's the lighting wiring diagram for the 5.2 car.

    F355 5.2 Lighting Wiring Diagram

    The lift motor circuit is not easy to figure out unless you are familiar with the gearbox internals. A couple of relays (in the forward luggage compartment) are involved ("B" and "D"), but it's unlikely the "D" relay is involved or that would affect both headlight motors. You may find the pins on the motor disconnect plugs heavily corroded because they are exposed to the elements.
     
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  13. WATSON

    WATSON Two Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Sep 9, 2010
    21,607
    WI
    Could be lots of things. The motor electrical tracks corroded?

    Can you get it to go by twisting the knob on the top of the headlamp motor?
     
  14. WATSON

    WATSON Two Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Sep 9, 2010
    21,607
    WI
    It appears the thread we had "355 headlight pod going strange" from 2011 (yikes) is gone.

    In that thread I had directions and images of how to fix a stuck or partially operating headlamp motor.

    Sad.

    I'll try and find the details from my way back machine.
     
  15. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Jun 14, 2011
    8,562
    SoCal LA/OC/New Mexico
    Full Name:
    Tim Dee
    maybe a little headlamp viagra will help?
     
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  16. watkinsgt

    watkinsgt Karting

    Feb 4, 2008
    204
    Yesterday a 16 yr. old neighborhood kid handed me a 6"x 6" swatch of plastic chain mail he had printed off the internet. Strong, flexible, intricate, amazing. Can the crumbling popup headlight gears referenced by Qavion (#13 below) be printed?
     
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  17. Pangea

    Pangea Formula Junior

    Mar 27, 2011
    442
    UK
    Full Name:
    Nick
    Qavion and SA Mike like this.
  18. SA Mike

    SA Mike Karting

    May 25, 2019
    52
    Texas
    Full Name:
    Michael Martinez
    So checked the fuses and relays this morning everything is good. So probably the motor or connectors. Twisted the knob on top of the motor a few turns counterclockwise and clockwise and the headlight isn’t moving. Manual doesn’t say which way to turn.
     
  19. SA Mike

    SA Mike Karting

    May 25, 2019
    52
    Texas
    Full Name:
    Michael Martinez
    Thanks for all the replys!
     
  20. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Feb 20, 2015
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    Ian Riddell
    #21 Qavion, Sep 2, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2019
    For mechanical operation, it doesn't matter which way you turn the knob. Normally it does take quite a few turns to see any movement of the pod (due to the mechanical setup). If the pod is not moving mechanically, then it's a gearbox or linkage problem.

    Normally, after the pod has stopped electrically (at "fully up" or "fully down"), to get the circuit to reactivate, it is necessary to move the light switch to reset the relays for the next half cycle. Moving the pod mechanically, you are putting the electrics into the middle of a cycle, so the circuit will be activated*. After activation, which position the pod ends up in, up or down, depends on the position of the light switch.

    *Mechanically moving the pod with the knob moves metal contacts (fingers) onto the conductive portion of a metal disk in the gearbox. There are normal electrical deadspots on the disk that stop the pod moving at the fully up or down position, but sometimes corrosion on the disk creates false deadspots.
     
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  21. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Feb 20, 2015
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    Ian Riddell
    To get the quality required, you may need a professional 3D printing machine. These cost hundreds of thousands of dollars and you need a very generous owner to break into his production cycles to print off a small number of items. A small batch can cost the manufacturer hundreds of dollars, making small runs un-economical

    3D printing needs a template (either constructed from a 3D scan of the part required or from a computer drawn image). Tolerances can be critical and sometimes trial and error is required (costing more big machine downtime). I've been discussing the production of F355 Spider seat potentiometer parts with a big machine owner. Progress has been very slow and I think the machine owner's interest has only been maintained because he has needed the potentiometer part for his Jaguar seat. The Jaguar potentiometers are also (next-to-) impossible to find.

    I assume a 3D scan-type template is the cheapest option, but for that, you need a good sample, not a broken one. There are probably workarounds, but that also takes time and effort.
     
    SA Mike likes this.
  22. redwedge

    redwedge Formula Junior

    Sep 30, 2012
    324
    London
    Full Name:
    Steve C
    If it's just gears, I'd take the originals to a machine shop and have them turn some aluminium replacements.
     
  23. emac

    emac Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 14, 2014
    851
    upstate SC
    Full Name:
    ernest
    I have a 3D printer and the resin I use is pretty strong. If someone has the ability to make an .stl file I will print some for free to try.
     
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  24. SA Mike

    SA Mike Karting

    May 25, 2019
    52
    Texas
    Full Name:
    Michael Martinez
    I thought I posted this already but I did fix the problem. The knob on the pod in question was turned back all the way down and was loose. I raised the light manually to its full up position and then turned it back down where it’s supposed to be and it now works. So both headlights are now working.
     
    Qavion likes this.

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