i have noticed that Ferrari states 812 performance claims using “98 RON” gas. Here in California, my chevron only delivers 91 octane. Octane = (RON+MON)/2. I believe that chevron gas is ethanol free. Not sure as it is California CARB air emissions control. I deduced to go buy some 100 octane Sunoco gas at a gas station. So about 12 gallons in of it and 5 gallons of the 91 left. I am not sure what RON is of the Chevron 91. So... 1) is running ethanol through your daily driver Ferrari a bad idea? (As opposed to one that sits in storage) 2) are there real performance gains to using Sunoco’s 100 at the pump? They also sell a product call 260 GTX that is zero ethanol and 98 RON. Is that better to use than a blend of Chevron 91 and Sunoco’s pump 100 in terms of performance? Is the blend’s ethanol low enough to not screw up your 812? Also here is the link to the 260 GTX race gas I was describing. It lists a number of valuable properties. I don’t think this is the 100 pump product. I am not sure which was being served at the pump. https://www.sunocoracefuels.com/fuel/260-gtx Thanks for replying.
IIRC the 98 RON we have in Europe is 88 MON, so it's 93 octane (or AKI). The European 95 RON is 85 MON so corresponds with 90 octane. I believe all modern engines could work with 95 RON, but could have degraded performance as compared to running on 98 RON. Btw the European 98 RON contains 5% ethanol, the European 95 RON contains 10% ethanol.
Congratulations on your 812! Its a brilliant car! I'm pretty sure you will be fine on 91, 93 would be better. Anything over this, I think the engine won't use it for more power as its tuned for our 93. I'm pretty sure all gas sold in the US has ethanol in it. I think modern Ferrari engines can cope with up to 10% ethanol. I doubt you would see a real benefit from the 260 GTX. I would enjoy your 812 and not worry about using pump fuel. I would only worry if you were going to let your car sit for very long periods of time.
What's the equivalent of Shell V Power Racing and BP's Ultimate in the North American market? In Europe the premium fuel is 98 and 100 RON. Obviously for a Ferrari if you want the maximum performance you go for premium gasoline.
That depends on where you live in Europe. Here none of the fuels contain ethanol. Shell V-Power 99, Shell 95 and 92 are all without ethanol in these parts. I know the Shell V-Power 99/100 is AKI 94-95. Non-ethanol 95 RON is usually equal to 91 AKI. The biggest issue with the California gas is not so much what the RON is, but what the MON is. As I mentioned in another thread, I have an acquaintance who works for a large US fuel manufacture, and as he puts it, the poor quality California gas usually has a high RON number, but a very low MON number. As I wrote, that's perfectly fine for a normal low compression car and you can sell it as advertised, but the issue is that the MON is very low. The MON tells a lot more about how well the fuel resists detonation under high load situations and with high compression. Like he said, "we can make cheaper gas that will work fine as 91 AKI that has a RON of 100 but a MON of 82 and sell it as 91AKI." So where you are in California which is knows for very low quality gas, you need to at least run 93 AKI to be sure you're even close to proper 98 RON. VP100 is way past what's needed, but mixing it into the fuel is a great idea, much better so than using various octane boosters. Also be aware of how old the fuel is. One other aspect of poor quality gasoline, is how short it last. A high quality fuel can sit for months without issues, but those poor quality fuels go bad in a matter of weeks. Make sure you get your fuel from a station with lots of traffic that has its tanks filled weekly. If the station sells a lot of fuel, there's a good chance the fuel is fresh.
Yup. Goes stale in the tank and is hydroscopic as hell. Add to that the energy density goes down so the ecological advantage is offset by the poor milage. My country which is full of tree huggers and love eagle slappers, actually went away from E10 after about a year. We may do a lot of odd things our politicians do in the name of the eco system i.e voters,,, but at least they quickly realized that E10 was garbage - both for cars and for the polar bears.
All very true. Over here they are starting with E15 and doing ethanol year round. It is crap and dangerous. We don't have V-Power 100 nearby and I don't like the idea of mixing canned race fuel in with cheap pump gas. I did all the race fuel mixing I'm ever going to do in the past. Its very expensive and a PITA. It also ruins the real benefit of race specific fuel which is consistency when you mix with a crummy base fuel. A Ferrari should not be so particular to need race fuels. They are road cars. Would love to fee it 95 E0 if I could find it though.
Here in California, the highest pump gas I've seen is AKI octane 91. But A Friend I Know filled with race gas at a 76 station that was pumping Sunoco 260GT with RON 105 / MON 95 for an AKI 100 octane. Sunoco's website says it has 9.8% ethanol and also 3.7% oxygenated to make sure of complete detonation with a fuel with 105 RON. He asked the station manager a number of times the ethanol % at the 260GT race gas pump ($7.75/gallon). The station manager repeatedly stated that the 260GT AKI 100 octane at the pump only had 3.7% ethanol. Even after he was told this % amount is the same number as the % oxygenation amount. Since there is only California AKI 91 now, I wonder how under the performance curve the 812, Pista, etc with CA 91 gas vs getting a higher quality gas 98 RON gas, I have seen Ferrari state their performance figures with 98 RON gas. So I guess, getting to at least AKI 95 or 93 by mixing with a race fuel like a 260GTX with a high quality premium AKI 91 is our least expensive method. Does California 91 gas have ethanol? It would be interesting to see test data. Oh, of course this is just for the use of this person's 812 for track racing.
That sucks. You're very right about mixing the fuel, and it is a pain. But I will always recommend anyone to mix in a bit of race fuel rather than using a booster. It is of course not precice enough and a thing to do on a race car, but pouring a gallon of VP100 into a full tank of 93AKI just to help it along a bit, is a far better solution than using a booster. You never know what's in that crap.
I would not use an oxyginated fuel. Your engine is not tuned for it so you run a high risk of leaning it out way too much. I've done some stuff with VP C16 and VP Q16 in powerboat engines, and they need very different fuel maps. VP has an unleaded street fuel I believe is sold at some stations in Cali. I believe that was the fuel 458Trofeo used.
They have very high compression and high revving engines, much more than many race cars. That said, they should run fine on 95 RON, but optimum performance is achieved with 98, or above, as stated in the manual.
I use VP in my older cars. Its expensive but I think worth it. They sit for too long, their fuel systems were never designed for the ethanol, and I just feel better about it. But for a modern car like an 812, as much as the modern fuel is comparatively garbage, I would just use it. Unless the car is going to truly be a garage queen.
All modern Ferrari hp figures are based off of 98ron which is 93.8oct for us in US, in California and some other states pump gas is limited to 91oct On hot summer days my F12 and GT3 doesn’t tolerate 91, I can actually hear them ping , not much I can do about that other than blend 6 to 10 gallons of unleaded race fuel with 91. If only pump gas is available I run that, having said that I’m lucky enough to have two nearby stations that sell VP101 street blaze . Even with the added octane performance gain is hardly detectable , but it stops the pinging . If you have cars that sit for a long time VP does offer verity of non ethanol fuels, C9, vintage unleaded etc... I used them straight without blending on my Diablo, aircooled Porsches, and my 458Sa. Now to get the full benefit of these fuels you need to drain the old fuel from your tank . As an added bonus there is very noticeable performance gain with C9 or vintage unleaded on the Diablo and 458SA where you don’t get by blending pump gas with 100 octane . My suggestion to you guys if your car tolerates pump gas run it. If you have cars that sit 3-6 mo at a time use ethanol free fuel. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thank you. Interesting that you have seen performance gains. Do you happen to know if California premium gas with 91 AKI octane from Chevron or Shell has ethanol? And if so how much? I have asked 4 Chevron dealers and they don’t know. A friend of mine just bought 260 GTX at $12/gallon. He bought it because it 103 RON 93 MON for 98 AKI with 0% ethanol. He was then considering mixing that with premium 91 here in California. Anyone know what ethanol % is in Chevron or Shell 91 in California? And/ or the specific RON and MON #s? Thanks
Chevron, Shell, Mobil , 76 , every single gas station in Ca are the same , they all have ethanol up to 10%. Keep in mind that most unleaded racing fuels have even more . 98 Ron is the ideal fuel for our Ferrari’s but I wouldn’t worry too much about putting 91 oct in your 812SF, if it’s not pinging just use it . Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
