2010 Cali and variator repair

I can't help regarding years for the variator repair on the California - but in terms of cost: I have a 2007 Quattroporte. Dealer quoted $14,000 for the repair and my independent shop (Fast Cars) did it for $7K.

 

I dealt with that issue in my 2010 and it's about 7-12K to fix

 

I'll bet random cars will have variator issues. My '14 FF has a variator solenoid that will start acting up at about 8,000 miles, causing the engine to quit after a few seconds when idling, it also must be hot. It is still under warranty but in previous repair attempts Ferrari always said "Change the oil." An oil change seems to fix it for about 8,000 miles. I tend to put 12,000 miles per year on each car. Next summer when it happens again I will insist on a solenoid change.

 

Evening all,

Sounds like my December 2009 car has a solenoid or variator issue.

Back from a service and within about 50 miles of driving, had the CEL come on. Car drives absolutely fine with no misfires etc. Dealer who serviced the car collected it and has been there for 3 weeks now...(when first returned after the service, there was a rattle under the bonnet which caused the CEL to come on; upon return to the dealer, that was diagnosed as debris in the engine bay, which set of the knock sensor...)

First advised that it might be a cam sensor issue, but seemingly not. Maranello are involved as they apparently have access to areas of the car's ECU that dealers don't.

Today, had a call to say that another California (location unknown) is exhibiting the same CEL issue, but lucky for that owner, its still under warranty.... That car is now being used as a guinea pig for and once they have the cause, they hope its the same for mine. Two suspects now, the variator solenoid(s) or variator(s).

The car only has 16,000 miles and full dealer history, so hopefully oil maintenance isn't the cause of whatever has gone wrong. Solenoids not meant to be too big a deal to replace, but if it is the variator(s), who knows....

Anybody else had a similar issue where performance seems unaffected, but something related to the cam system has thrown a wobbly?

Thanks,

Dem


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Well, 5 weeks at the dealership and the latest update is the factory suggesting to pull the engine out, dismantle it and see if they can see anything wrong.

Great...

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Who is going to pay for that ?

 

I don't have any experience with variators but I have a basic understanding on how they work. Here's what I know:

- the variators used in the Cali are also sometimes called "variable valve timing adjusters" and they do exactly that, adjust the valve opening for the intake inlets and also exhaust outlets, in order to maximize power across the engine rev range and also optimize combustion.

- there are 2 intake and 2 exhaust variators in the Cali engine = 4 variators total

- the variators are driven by engine oil pressure which varies with engine revs. Engine oil flows through the variators, drives and modulates the action of the variators depending on engine revs

- the same variators are used on Calis from MY 2009-2014

- the same variators are also used in all 458 models, 599 GTO, 599 SA Aperta, F12 GTB/TDF, FF/GTC4Lusso, 812SF, all LaF models​

Judging from the background information from the few car owners mentioned with this problem it looks to me variator failures may be caused by the variator moving parts being exposed to "overly degraded" engine oil over time. High mileage is also a correlating factor as I recall fellow FChat member, MalibuGuy, also experienced Cali variator failure. He put over 60,000 miles on his Cali, in California traffic.

My suspicion is that failures in this variator design may be caused by excessive oil contamination within the variators. Assuming the cars are already being properly serviced (and tuned), this can be caused by contaminants in the engine oil from: 1) lots of slow driving in urban settings... i.e. traffic jams, 2) high mileage between oil changes or 3) frequent spurts of high acceleration on an otherwise cold engine. Essentially, there is a lot of incompletely burnt fuel being picked up as soot in the engine oil.

If you do a lot of slower urban, stop-and-go, driving and you have this problem or want to avoid it, I would suggest changing your engine oil and filters more frequently. This suggestion correlates with what Rick Lederman wrote in post #5 above. You can also take your car out onto country roads and drive non-stop at a relatively brisk pace for more than an hour on a regular basis. This heats up the engines, keeps them hot and tends to burn off soot residues in the engine oil; another reason why frequent hard use of these cars is advised. Country roads are better to drive on as there is less traffic, speeds are lower and you are much less likely to get an expensive cracked windshield from having to follow another car.

 

I also had a variator failure. The car wasn’t driven in stop and go traffic. I live in Malibu and drive north on PCH well away from the typical LA city traffic. The car was serviced properly, and the issue occurred at around 40K miles. I did drive the car approx 70k miles. The repair is an engine out affair and there are four variators, an intake and an exhaust on each bank. Fortunately this service was covered under the factory warranty.

The problem has to with inadequate oil cooling, a flaw which is shared with Maserati engine/design. In contrast, this failure is fairly uncommon in the mid-rear V8 Ferrari’s.My 360 which had 68,000 miles never had this and neither has my 458 spider which just turned 114,000 miles,

I hope and would like to think that Ferrari improved the oil cooling/ starvation flaw in the Cali T or Portofino.

 

Thanks for your input. I don’t doubt your experiences. However, I find your explanation of “inadequate oil cooling” interesting. Since the variators use engine oil, any oil overheating would affect the normal operating temperature of the engine. Engine oil is also cooled by the water in the radiator. So if there is no overheating detected by the sensors that monitor oil and water temperatures then what would be the nature of the inadequate oil cooling that you refer to? Also what is the “oil cooling/ starvation flaw in the Cali T or Portofino” you refer to? Can you provide us more information or a link? If insufficient oil is reaching the variator then I agree that would be a problem but you didn’t actually say that.

BTW, I made a simple search using Bing with the search string “Ferrari variator failure” and this is what came up immediately... 3 pages worth. They appear to be all referencing F360, F430, 599 and Quattroporte failures, mainly F360, none referred to Calis or PFs.

Many 360 variator failures were due to an old design which involved a broken fastener causing catastrophic engine failures. The factory issued a new design which apparently fixed that. Other failures were apparently caused by contaminated oil which appear to be (sloppy) garage service issues. Solenoid failures were also caused by leaking oil from sloppy installation of seals during service visits.

FWIW, my comments about driving your cars more were prompted by Rick’s experience with oil change intervals and this was also alluded to in one of the links in the screenshot below - yes, I read most of them. The advice to change the oil alludes to (degraded) oil and/or oil filters being a possible cause of variator problems.

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Hi My experience with the Cali variator failure was one where I spent a considerable time asking questions with the mechanics and Ferrari factory.

One of the things that the factory did was to perform an oil change hoping to improve the oil circulation. I recall that one of the symptoms was at start up where there was inadequate oil circulation. The mechanics explained that this was a fairly well known problem with the Maserati engines. And sure enough while my Cali had its repairs there was a Maserati getting the same repair.

As far as the 360, there was a recall campaign due to a weak bolt one which was not tapped deeply enough and which could snap. That would lead to a completely different kind of problem. One which could result in severe damage due to valve and piston head interference. Replacing the Cali variators isn’t as expensive that since bent valves don’t result.
Anyway the recall for the F360 was to replace the skinny short bolt with a longer thicker one.

Anyway, the Cali is now three generations ago. I’m sure that the Portofino has many many nice improvements.

 

I knew maseratis had issues with variators but thought it was only 2011 and older. Interesting to hear that it has occurred on california’s and could be related to front engine configuration.

 

I think you are correct in that there were/are different problems affecting Ferrari's variable valve-timing designs. However, I also think you gave a false impression that Calis have variator problems and the F360 and other Ferraris for that matter, do not. Until Ferrari changed the F360 variator design, the F360 actually had a much worse variator problem that in effect destroyed the camshafts and engine valves, potentially ruining the engines. Whereas the variators in the Calis also affect the 458 and F430 as well as any other Ferrari that use the part and the problems are not catastrophic by comparison. FWIW, I think all cars with variable valve-timing engines are susceptible to their own problems from those systems. For instance, BMW had their VANOS problems with earlier engines.

At any rate, I believe the problem you mention is not actually oil cooling but forms of oil starvation which you did mention.

The Ferrari variator design is driven by oil pressure and functions mainly at mid-range engine revs where the varying of valve-timing improves engine performance. The variator does not improve engine performance at low end or top end engine speeds and the variator returns valve timing to default by letting the camshaft return to its default position.

When you rev your engine to the mid-range engine speeds the ECU detects this action and signals the variator solenoid (variable valve timing adjuster solenoid valve) to let in engine oil pressure to actuate the variator which in response turns the camshaft slightly to alter its position (I believe around 12°). I have attached photos of the variator below - notice the big coil spring at the base of the variator. I suspect as pressure builds inside the variator it turns the spring which in turn moves the camshaft. When the ECU lowers oil pressure, the variator relaxes the spring.

With wet sump engine cars like the Cali and 599, even though their engine oil do circulate faster than dry sump cars (458, F430) with cold starts, I suspect drivers can still cause the variators to operate dry briefly if they decide to rev their cars before the engines are properly warmed-up. However, I think the bigger difference is that after the cars are warmed up, the dry sump cars have an advantage even with a smaller oil capacity because they are designed to keep the engine parts better lubricated under all conditions than wet sumps. To this point I think it is also interesting to note that HELE (stop-start) engines also employ a more efficient oil circulation design in the engine block because of the issue of oil bleed back during engine idle at the frequent STOP phase of the stop-start operating environment. I suspect HELE engines also circulate oil faster under all conditions.

Regardless of wet or dry sump, drivers should not crazy-rev their engines until they have warmed up.

Finally, I note service mechanics tend to suggest changing the oil or doing more frequent oil changes when drivers encounter variator issues. This is because variators are relatively smaller mechanisms dependent on good responsive engine oil pressure. As the oil degrades and becomes contaminated by particulates, they become sluggish and can also foul the variators as well as the variator solenoids, causing degraded camshaft and engine performance as well as eventually, variator failures with worn internal bearings... ticking engine noises, poor engine performance, misfires and eventually engine stalls.

If you drive your car at higher revs, it activates the solenoids, pressurizes the oil, flushing the variator mechanism more frequently. The engine will also operate at optimum temperatures for longer periods burning off more of the oil debris from incomplete combustion.

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Yes you are correct. My Cali was a 2010 MY so this is at this same time period-2011.

I’m discussing reality. I owned the cars that I am post about, the 360 the Cali and the 458.

I don’t know if the statement that the 599 had variator problems is accurate. If someone who actually owned a 599 and had an issue would chime in, that would be interesting.

 

Well, I saw 3 references to variator failures in the 599, one was a 3rd-hand reference on FChat. You will find it with a simple search. On the same search, you will find the other one, which is 1st-hand from the 599 owner. Then the same 599 repair appears to have discussed in greater 1st-hand detail apparently by the actual repair mechanic on another Ferrari forum. I am attaching a screenshot of his 2012 message below - the "...Ferrari 4.3/6.0" refer to Ferrari V8/V12 engines, with the 4.3L alluding to the F430/Cali and the 6.0L, the 599.

The 599 variator problem happened on the variator solenoid. It was a degradation issue.

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Another problem that was noted by one mechanic is oil bleed-back which denies the variator of lubricant at cold startup and he says it was resolved by adding a check valve in the housing for the solenoid. Another guy from a Maserati forum jerry-rigged an oil accumulator to the variator circuit to prevent bleed back and apparently it worked. This type problem may have also been worked on with various Ferrari variator applications at some point. 2010 MY Calis are early cars so there may have been modifications to the system's design over the years. I can only speculate on that as I am not a Ferrari mechanic.