Timing belt goes poof | FerrariChat

Timing belt goes poof

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by ttforcefed, Sep 13, 2019.

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  1. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    Aug 22, 2002
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    If you have experienced a timing belt go on a ferrari please state miles and years since the last major service/timing belt change.
     
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  2. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
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    If I may add ..when replying which model / year

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  3. RedNeck

    RedNeck F1 Veteran
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    I’d be willing to venture that anyone has experienced this has most likely rescued the car from one of many owners that let the maintenance lapse so accurate info may be hard to come by....but I do seem to remember a conversation on here where a 360 owner set a goal for his timing belts to last 20 years.
     
  4. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    Maybe i shld have set this up as a poll with different time intervals. I just will never believe a belt cant last more than 7k miles etc over 7 yrs.


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  5. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

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    The problem or issue is there are so many variables .. no different than a serpentine belt ... Sometimes it last 50k and sometimes it last 100k

    Heat / cold cycles ..sitting ..prior mechanics work, tensioners ..etc

    If the car is driven lightly and consistently and stored in a climate controlled garage ..7 years is very very conservative imho ..10 12 would be a good guess

    Let's see what the poll says

    To make it scientific we would have to add mileage per year, avg Mike's per trip, storage conditions, type of belt used , tensioners used ..areas climate or better yet climate extremes and humidity.. now that would take a computer to calculate

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  6. eyeman1234

    eyeman1234 Formula 3
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    Dec 25, 2006
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    In the Boxer thread:

    Rifledriver

    "Ferrari never said a major needed to be done every 5 years. They only said the belts needed to be done. What else you do is optional."

    "Majors are at 30,000 miles. Belts are 5 years or 30,000. Different services."

    "Valve adjustment every 15,000. Easily done with engine in the car."
     
  7. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
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    My ex-Mondial 3.2 Coupe, before my term of ownership:

    "There was extensive damage to one cylinder head."

    "It was reported that "a belt broke and fortunately it was at a stop light". The work order shows a "cam belt kit with bearings", however, the cause of the belt failure wasn't determined."

    "BTW, this event occurred in 2002 which was before Ferrari issued their 3/30,000 document. At the time, the car had only 21464 miles, well under the 60,000 miles replacement interval as per the Owners Manual."

    More details here:

    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/timing-belt.373184/#post-141551324
     
  8. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    #9 johnk..., Sep 14, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2019
    You want first hand experience so here it is. 1985 308 QV, one owner, 27k miles, 25 years. Car stored 6 months out of the year in a non climate controlled garage in New England. Reason was determined to be non-belt related. A cam drive pulley failed causing misalignment of the belt. The belt rode up on the pulley fence and was eventually cut down. Damages was limited to 4 ( 2 intake and 2 exhaust) valves. You can not see bend with out placing the valve stems in a drill and watching them rotate. Insignificant surface damage to two pistons. Pulled head, ground valve seats, replaced the 4 valves, new valve seals, replaced cam drive pulley bearings, did the 30k major and good to go. Neither belt, (broken belt shown below), showed any other signs of wear. No cracking at tooth roots or on back of belt, no fluid saturation, etc. When compared to a new belt, no evidence of belt stretch as length of old and new belts were both within manufacture's tolerances. Old belt was actually shorted than the new belt. Total cost, including some other non related work, was under $9k plus change.

    First major was done 1997 at 15k miles per owners manual, by Ferrari dealer. Belts were not changed as they were not scheduled to be changed at 15k miles. Currently, 9 years, 5k miles on new belts.

    Aside from time interval for belt changes the car has been maintained as per Ferrari recommendations.

    FWIW, when looking for my 355 in 2012, I saw many cars with records showing belt change intervals exceeding 10 years, some that never had a belt change. The 355 I purchased had belt changes at 4,6 and 7 years, and will be at 7 years next May.

    And frankly, threads like this are a complete waste of time. In my case if I had the belts changes every 3 years the pulley still would have failed within that tine interval and I still would have suffered the same fate. And FWIW, the tensioner bearings after 25 years were fine.

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  9. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    how is this a waste of time? if i read your post correctly, your experience shows changing the belts every 3 years is futile in most cases, is that correct? how do you decide when to change your belts?
     
  10. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    It' a waste of time because: 1) it's been discussed to death over and over again. 2) Doesn't matter what anyone says, or how they make a decision, every owner will do what they are comfortable with.
     
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  11. Nospinzone

    Nospinzone F1 Veteran

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    Following up on johnk's post about "A cam drive pulley failed ....", does anyone know if when either changing or inspecting the belts it would have been apparent that the pulley was not in good condition and could fail?

    BTW, johnk, I don't know if its a waste of time, but I certainly enjoyed reading your post #9.
     
  12. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    well by that measure 97% of what gets posted shouldn't be.

    you have owned your car for 27 years so you have a unique perspective - how do you decide when to change the belts?
     
  13. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Belt changes are not done in a vacuum unless the mechanic is a mindless idiot. You may have well prevented the cam drive failure during a 3 or 5 yr. belt change by careful inspection. Often problems are averted by inspection when greater access to areas is provided by other service. Cam drive inspection is part of the belt service. You replace the belt and you inspect what it touches. Many of those waste of time threads talk and evolved into the timing chain pad change threads and timing case 170787 bearing threads. These issues tackled by the DIY'ERs elevated our cars reliability that never came from the dealer network. Threads like these are only useless if people only think 1 dimension. Successful running Ferraris have many moving parts...pun intended.
     
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  14. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    Well, owned the 308 for 34 years. Yes, most of what gets posted on F Chat is a waste of time. What kind of oil to use, antifreeze, brake fluid, tires, battery, posts for help with a problem where all people do is recommended changing every associated part to fix it, diagnosing a problem without knowing the OBD II trouble codes. Sometimes I offer suggestions. Mostly I pass. When you read posts like, "When I try to start my car it cranks but won't start. Do you think the battery is dead?", it makes you wonder. I don't understand why people can not make a decision for themselves, and if they can't figure out what's wrong with their car, they probably shouldn't be trying to fix it themselves. Recently I read a post where a guy what having a problem and one of the people who claims to work on these cars for payment made the blanket statement, "If the battery is over 5 years old, replace it". Seriously? Both my cars have original water pumps that have not been rebuilt. Why are people constantly replacing water pumps at every major?

    How do I decide when to change T-belts? I haven't had to decide. The 308 belt failed as noted above. New belts went on 9 years ago. I haven't thought about doing belts again on that car. I bought the 355 with a fresh major. I figure I'll go 10 years or about 15k miles before the next major. But that could change. I just don't worry about it.
     
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  15. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    Im in a similar camp. That being said I’m more in the “its not gonna go” camp as opposed to the “it might go and ill just deal with it” camp.

    I was more curious to see if anyone responded with “i put 200 miles per year on my car over 7 years and the car was stored in climate control environment and my belt went”
     
  16. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    Could have, would have should have, or not. We will never know, will we. :) And if I had T-belts done every 2 years (308 manual), or 3 years, or even every 5 years, which may or may not have prevented the failure, it would have cost me 2 1/2 to 3 times, at least, of what it cost me to correct the problem.

    I mean, they are cars. Ultimately they will either end up in someone else hands or the scrap yard. I don't particular care which.
     
  17. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    That's a is it better to be lucky or smart argument. Since I'm neither I choose to do proper maintenance. A toyota is the best car to ignore...
     
  18. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    If you drove a car 200 miles a year wld you do the belt every 5 years?


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  19. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I have owned and DIY only 6 belted Ferraris, race one of them and will probably end up racing my current one. The answer is yes and I have always done that in the past except 3 yr intervals on the early all cloth belts. Years back when the 575 went to 5 years the belt got stronger made of cloth kevlar etc etc. When I raced my 348 the belt was done annually! My cars have always run 100%. I want 100% performance. I'm one of those people who at the 5 year have fuel injectors removed flowed and cleaned and I walnut shell clean intake valves ports when camshafts are out. I'll put the ECU's and clean the pins. I race cars as a hobby. A successful race starts with a lot of car prep at home.
     
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  20. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    Later to be followed by the 3 yrs/15k mile recommendation for all V8 cars. Was 2 yrs for a 308 ever anything but nonsense?

    How about asking why you should use nitrogen in you tires? You should see the response that gets.

    FChat is for entertainment only, IMO.
     
  21. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Your post is an example of how things can "slip thru" in the F documentation creation process IMO. The (agree crazy) 24 months thing was/is in the earlier-created euro 308QV OM and just (wrongly) got copied over into the later-made US 308QV OM; whereas, the 52.5K mile spec in that same OM was intentionally done by Ferrari to avoid the US law requiring emission components be replaced under warranty up to 50K miles. My 5-lug TR OM states that I should torque the wheel nut to 325 ft-lbs -- seems a little high to me ;)
     
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  22. Alcav5

    Alcav5 F1 Rookie
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    tt I wonder why you posted this question ?
    Am I correct in saying that you have a 612 or 599 ?. Are you asking because your 5 year service is coming due?

    Well my '09 612 5 yr service is coming due and I keep wondering how much time do I have left. How many more miles can I get out of it before I am in risky territory. (it's got 14k miles on it now)

    Truthfully I am really in the camp that I do not have anything to worry about in the near term , but with this car I do not want to fool around. I definitely will schedule service before this year's out.
    But I do wonder if there are some pp who have experienced a problem by not adhering to the manufacturer's suggested service intervals.
    I do wonder if time does deteriorate the belt same as some plastic interiors become sticky over time.

    Al
     
  23. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    I have a bunch of cars with belts, most of which are garage queens. Been thinking about getting a high mile 355 to dd.


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  24. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    Also a 612 or 360 is a walk in the park vs 355 and testarossa where engine needs to come out.


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