F12 tdf market price thread

My point is merely that all cars become "low" mileage as time goes to infinity, and thus the premium for low miles decreases. What's you definition of a low mileage 1960 Ferrari? 3K miles? 5K miles? 10K miles?

If what you said was true, there should be at least some indication in listings and auction results that the prices are as wide as you say, but there's not as far as I can tell.

Isn't there a broken on here who is often brokering these kinds of cars? Maybe he can chime in and say what happens to the mileage premium in early years vs very late years.

 

Thats 60 yrs ago?! How many ferraris were made in 1960?


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I meant 1960s, but the point is the same. What is a low mileage car that's 50-60 years old?

The best ROI will be to buy the highest mileage car you can early on when the delta in price is greatest. The difference in value way down the road will not be greater than that initial delta + opportunity cost of the savings. It very likely won't even be greater than the delta itself.

Keep in mind I'm talking about the limited cars today that are selling at extreme premiums on practically day 1. This is not the same as during the era in which cars were rare, but not meant to be collectible. Cars being valuable is a rather modern happening.

 

mileage doesn't matter for 1960s cars because they only made a handful to begin with and only a few survived unmolested. its like glick's p4/5 - there's only one of those so mileage doesn't matter. by the 80s and 90s people figured out the collecting/speculating game. there were about 800 TDFs made, and how many total regular f12s? thousands. a damaged mickey mantle or honus wagner will always be worth more than a mint ken griffey jr rookie. so anything on the north side of 1980 mileage is going to matter. it still matters for 308 and 328s. it doesnt matter for dinos. i dont make the rules to the game, but i know what they are and respect them. So yes, mileage can make an 800k difference on an f50 or enzo. The 288 isnt as sensitive to miles but under 300 were made. if they made 270 F40s they wld me less sensitive to miles but they made 1300. enzo and f50 arent big production but people knew taking care of them made sense so theyre much easier to buy "clean" than the 288 and f40.

 

I would say though even if each car is different, in a broader market like the testarossa, u can draw conclusions from the observations.


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Even with those the guys with the loudest opinions are often the ones with the least experience in trading them

 

This really is the key point. Many people use prices of 50s-60s cars as an example of mileage not mattering after a certain amount of time but it is not the correct interpretation. The reason mileage does not matter is because there are so few of them and the demand far outstrips the supply.

 

I want to add my two cent to the whole 1960 vs. anything post 1980s. I'm a child of the early eighties and so far, I haven't bought any car that is older than 1987. Why? Because most of the cars from the 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s doesn't speak to me in the same way when I see a Countach or F50. The car market value will reflect this trend as the buyers of the Duesenbergs starts to die off and younger buyers (like me) become the main stream of buyers.

Having said this, the world's economy is changing. Economy as a whole is much bigger now and markets like China hasn't really gotten involved in the collector's car market yet. It's just a matter and when they do, the market will change in ways we have never seen before. Just look at the collector's wine market and see how China single-handily affected the market and valuation.

So using production numbers of cars from the 1960s as comparison base will not be accurate going forward. Generations are different, economy is bigger, so the demand for these "future classics" will be different too going forward.

 

What's the non-salvaged FGT market like for low vs high miles? That's a relatively high production exotic car with a very large demand base. Doesn't look like much more than a 10% difference for low vs high mileage.

 

"FGT"

As in Ford GT40? What gen? Spec do you refer to?

 

Reminds me of our friend "SuperDave"



Remember that guy?

 

Yeah, the early 2000s model. I was interested in them a few years back but prices jumped to seemingly frothy amounts. Just checked them out again and seems they've settled a bit back down with mid 200s buying seemingly perfect cars in various mileages.

 

A sub 3k mile gt40 is 75 to 100k less than a 25k mile car


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here is the link, price apparently was entered in wrong with miles a week ago, but still seems like a good deal.. thanks for all the comments

https://www.wideworldferrari.com/inventory-details/2016/Ferrari/F12tdf/ZFF81BFA5G0217356

 

This is an interesting point.

I think there was one outlier at the height of the valuation in Scottsdale in Jan 2017, 40kish mile example pulled in 250k me thinks.

 

take a 40k mile one and offer it to a wholesaler - thats what its worth if you want to sell today

 

Yup, selling at the end of 2016 was a smart move.

I read 3 things from noone1 on this thread

1) Weight doesn't matter
2) Miles don't matter
3) Infinite timelines

Like I said @ttforcefed remember superdave?

 

ha yeh he was a piece of work...

 

this car has an ask that's 250 to 350k lower than low mile cars - but noone says it doesnt matter. This car has 4300 miles. not close to 20K.

 

btw this answer to this is 170k. maybe.

 

Eh, I stand by my statement about weight too. If weight mattered people wouldn't be spending $500K and their left leg for a 3400 lb Pista or $1M for a TDF. Weight matters... until the car you like just happens to be heavy once it gets on a real scale.

I never said miles don't matter, I said miles don't matter over the long-term if you plan to buy and hold for a very long time. All modern collectible cars are babied and kept pristine just like modern baseball cards, and all miles become low miles after 30-40 years. The difference between a 20K mile TDF and a 5K mile TDF 35 years from now will be seat bolster wear at best since both cars are probably wrapped in excessive amounts of film and maintained religiously, never driven in anything buy Sun... you know the drill.

If you can show me actual transactions that show the level of difference you claim in mileage premium, I'll believe you. So far you haven't though and no listings indicate such large gaps either.

 

Well duh. Like I said 10x, the delta in price exist early on. That's like the crux of what I've been saying. The percentage difference in price for miles is far greater early on since "high mileage" is relative to time in existence.

TDF's are very new and Ferrari SE's don't get driven much, thus 4K miles is "high" right now. In 10 years it will be low. In 20 years lower. In 30 years insanely low. In 40 years people will call the car's life a total waste.

Like I asked before, what is you definition of low mileage for a 40 year old car? I think most would agree that even 20K miles is quite low for such a car. 500 miles per year... what is that, a week of driving per year?

 

i really dont mean this in a malicious way, but you are very hard to follow and you are making my head hurt. i'm 43 so i really dont think about cars that are pre 1990. for an f40 more than 7 or 8k miles is consider to be high.
just out of curiosity how old are you and how many cars have you bought and sold?

 

dude - i cld give a rats ass if you "believe"me. but thank you, because i literally laughed out loud.

 

ignore feature is wonderful.