anyone replace their accessory belt themselves on a 458?

Awesome post: Dam Ferrari uses a sound device to determine that the belt tensioners are keeping the correct tension. Highly doubt anyone would have this device so what makes the owner presume the belts need changing other than seeing belt wear ?

 

Actually, I had one. They are used to set the belt tension on the timing belts also, which is a bit more critical.

I sold mine, shortly after I sold my 360. If I recall correctly, I had the BrecoFlex Sm4 universal belt tension meter. Back then it was a pretty exotic tool, but these days you can buy them (and similar meters) all over the place. Heck, you can probably get away with using an app on your iPhone to do it now. Just download any good guitar tuner app and you can probably measure the belt Hz no problem.

I believe they also have a laser one, which measures the belt distance oscillation using light.

Welcome to having a Ferrari

Ray

P.S. I'm attaching the SM4 user manual, in case anyone is bored.

 

Spider Scott over on the 360 forum mentions using an APP (a sound level meter) on your phone to do the same thing as the device in the workshop manual (he used an APP to check the tension when doing a cam belt change his 360). Honestly, these cars won't have the mileage that'll warrant replacing the tensioner pulley. In all of my daily drivers, I have replaced the tensioner pulley once and I put hundreds of thousands of miles on my cars (granted, they are not Ferrari's). Regardless, it is simply a wound spring in the arm of the pulley and it truly isn't fatigued that much during use. But the APP I mentioned previously should be sufficient to check.

 

Beat me to it!!!!! And yes, the APP should suffice for this.

 

Im into audio and have a 31 octave spectrum analyser.

 

Is this a symptom for a bad tensioner or belt? Or both?

 

Usually it's a combination of all factors. The belts get old and the rubber dries out. The surface of the tensioner (where the belt rides) wears and sort of ends up polished. So you have a dry belt squealing over a polished/worn metal surface.

No matter how you slice it, it ain't gonna be quiet

Ray

 

Preventive maintenance maybe? I think i saw somewhere that it is recommended changing it every 4 years?


Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando FerrariChat

 

I think so. You definitely don't want any of those rubber belts on the Ferrari motor breaking - especially not the timing belt. Dayco (who makes the timing belt) lists its life at 50,000 miles as I remember (from when I was gearing up to change my own timing belts on the 360). Ferrari changed their recommendation at some point to 15K miles or 3 years. Probably not a bad idea - even thought it seems a bit excessive to me - especially when you consider the alternative is a destroyed motor that probably costs $40K or more to replace from Italy.

Anytime anyone talks about timing belts, I always like to tell them the story of my sister. Back when I had my internet company and was making a lot of cash, I decided to buy her a new car for her birthday. Brand new Mitsubishi. She loved that car and drove it all over the place. After a while, she moved away with her husband to another state. Anytime she would visit, I'd always ask her if she was keeping up on the maintenance. Pretty soon the car had like 90K miles on it. I explained that cars do require a certain amount of maintenance; I dragged out the service manual and pointed out that she was long overdue on stuff like changing the gear oil and also the timing belts (which I think were scheduled to be changed around 60K miles or something).

So every time she came to town, the subject of the timing belts came up.

The conversation usually went like this:

Me: "Have you changed your timing belts yet?"
My sister: "No, but I have it on my list.. how long do you think they will last?"
Me: "They are overdue, but you can usually get a little longer out of them than they recommend. But I'd do them when you get home"
My sister: "okay, I won't wait too much longer"

So, we had this conversation about three times, each time she visited California - and each time, the car had another 10,000 or 20,000 more miles on it.

You can see where this is going...

So one day she's on some business trip, far, far from home and sure enough the timing belt decides to snap in the middle of nowhere at night on some desolate road. There is no Mitsubishi dealer for hundreds of miles, so they tow her car to some local tire shop in town. I got the impression (from speaking with her over the phoen) that she was out in the middle of no place. If I remember correctly, someone at the tire place was a kid and happened to have a similar make and model to her car; he offered to do work after hours to install a new cylinder head and repair the damage to the motor. I don't remember all the details, but I think she ended up stuck for over a week and the repair bill was more than the car was worth. As I remember, my Dad had to wire her money to bail her out.

You can imagine this same scenario, but with your now 20 year old Ferrari 360 - especially having something like this happen out in the middle of nowhere. I tell you, as someone who has had a few cars break down at night in the middle of no place - on the side of a highway - there are few feelings more lonely than being stranded in the cold dark night and watching car after car whiz past you, full of toasty warm people listening to their radios. I suspect this is why Ferrari suggests changing the belts at 15K miles, instead of pushing them to 30K or 40K on a such high performance exotic car.

Same probably goes for the alternator belts, since those can leave you stranded just as fast as the timing belts can. I once had my alternator belt snap, about 40 miles from home, and it was a nightmare. I barely made it to the next town (where my girlfriend was). What normally should have been a 20 minute trip, suddenly turned into a several hour adventure, as I had to stop at each gas station and let my car cool down (because the alternator belt also turned the water pump). The battery (which was no longer being charged) managed to survive somehow. The reason for the failure was because I installed the alternator belt too tight. This speaks to why Ferrari probably recommends using a Hz meter also. Too much lateral pressure on the pulley will side load the bearings; after enough miles, they will fail and the shaft will weld itself or destroy the bearings, or something fun like that. In my case, the alternator shaft stopped and the belt continued - until it heated up so much it exploded.

Instead of having a wonderful weekend with my girlfriend, I spent the entire weekend under my car, borrowing tools and installing a new alternator in the parking lot of Autozone.. in Santa Cruz.

If there's a hell, it's an Autozone parking lot in Santa Cruz. Let me tell ya...

Ray

 

Browsing Ricambi, it shows the belt tensioner has been updated. Part number 238587 is now 325416. Seems like good preventative maintenance, belt and tensioner for around $200. Looks like an easy DIY project.

 

Difficult to say as I changed them both at the same time, the noise came back again after a few hundred km's, it doesn't seem to hurt the system, and it only does it when you drive it hard, I consider it part of the caracter of the car now

 

Is there any trick/hint you can give us to help make the removal of the power steering pully cover a little easier?

 

Hey Chris,

I used a ratcheting screwdriver similar to this:

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Kobalt-10-Piece-Steel-Handle-Ratcheting-4-Multi-Bit-Screwdriver-Set/1171067

Use the correct bit, and most likely with a 1/4" drive extension, for the screw that's in the upper right corner (when facing the cover). You can't see it but you can feel for it and would have to do it blind.

Hope this helps!

Ant

 

Anthony,
Thanks! I have one of those wrenches, as well as other stuff that might work. I don't need to do it until next year, but I like to be prepared. It seems like these cars need a new belt every two years. The first year it stays quiet, then when the 2nd year starts, it makes that chirp sound when shifting. I don't mind it too much since I know what it is, but since the manual says every two years, that's what I'll do. It's very cheap insurance.

 

Just a reminder that the belt is directional, and the pulley rotates clockwise as you are looking at the harmonic balancer.
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HELP! I am trying to change my drive belt and have spent 3 hours trying to get that secret allen bolt off the power steering pump cover. There is ZERO room to work. I can't get one finger in there.

I have tried a regular allen wrench, various 1/4" and 3/8" extensions and universal joints and even a Torx T30 to get some more bite. It takes 5 minutes to get the planets aligned to even make contact with the bolt face. Never have I seen a more maddening part to access on anything I have ever worked on. Now I think it may be stripped. How the hell am I going to get this thing out? Cut a groove in it manually with a hacksaw blade using 2 fingers? Digging the Shawshank tunnel seems appealing compared to that.

Any tips appreciated.

 

Update: the situation is worse than I thought. My understanding was there were 3 bolts on the p/s cover. There are 4. My previous post above is referring to the bolt you can see at the 4 o'clock position. I did not know the bolt at the top (1 o'clock position) even existed. How on earth do you access this? I can barely get a finger up there to touch it....how is a tool going to fit? What am I missing?

 

I did it a while ago, but out of memory, I think I used a 1/4" ratchet with the proper length extension (it may have been a wobble extension). If it's the right length, the tool fits right in there and you pretty much do it by feel. It will probably be impossible if the car isn't on a lift. Once it's on the lift, you have to reach up at a weird angle, but it would be impossible to explain in words (I think I was facing the right rear tire, crouched down a little, with my right arm extended upwards and towards the drivers door, lol. All of those weird positions were because we were designed improperly, and our joints are in the wrong position for doing this job). Then, the other tool I used was one of those spring loaded grabber tools, like this:
https://www.amazon.com/ANRANK-Flexible-Grabber-Pickup-Spring/dp/B07PLVG1ZC/ref=sr_1_5?crid=33B76GTDN6FWI&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.z35my0ZqCl6Zf8jrzroKSLNOqr_dzRVTWf70atOKBYVbTKCNwdlK1n1vWHlO-vga8vdnuDM-oA1-6ch541JTy_vxbJ56tR9CWUg9_qdrdnwrOIX7HjJY-uE-CvE-14JM6DB4jsS2fR556ZhimCU-_3CimhJyVPaNu0wL1S_gI7sXJ-V-crjt7vKmnwT8Zds2gafrjsn_zkOlFM5xlC4LQapdePrJTDeK6eNE-8TX7NfrF52l-CtWsvJOaS1WSosQg_g8HSe60uwzxKMiPNReOBN33DywMIMC8GHtD1pWZI8.BfEQyVL8Yf90vsHeoKEx1G_3DNaNDc4l_CYy3R6Z_60&dib_tag=se&keywords=spring+loaded+grabber+tools&qid=1705817880&sprefix=spring+loaded+grabber+tools,aps,83&sr=8-5 .
You can fish it in there, and grab the bolt to pull it out (and also put it back when re-installing)
There are only 3 bolts. I think one bolt looks like it holds the cover but it doesn't. You have to look very carefully. The 2 are obvious, and I think the 3rd is at the 1:30 or 2:00 position if I remember correctly.
My first time took me about an hour (after the belly pans were off) to figure out the wrench combo, etc. The second time only took me about 20 minutes to replace the belt.

 

But when do we renew the little bearing in the tensionner ?

 

Thanks Chris. My car is on jackstands and I am doing this on my back, but that's not the problem.

Your info is consistent with the parts diagrams: that there are only 3 hex bolts holding that cover on. It sure looks like there is a 4th one at the 4 o'clock position but I trust you are correct. I can see the top bolt only with an inspection mirror and have a couple of 1/4 ratchets--including a Facom rotating ratchet that allows for socket rotation without altering the angle of the handle. My plan is to purchase some 1/4" ball hex sockets to use with it. While I do already have a grabber tool, I cannot envision reinstalling a blind bolt with it.

On a related note, did you have to adjust the tension after reinstalling the new belt or will it generally be OK as is when the tensioner springs back?

 

On the lift, it's not really blind. I can actually see the bolt, and the hole that it goes into, it's just that my fingers can't get in there, or bend in the right direction.
You don't have to adjust the tensioner, It is spring loaded and applies the correct tension (if working properly)

 

That's completely up to you. It's not only the bearing in the tensioner, the spring will weaken over time as well.
Most people will probably wait until it makes noise, etc. But, I'm nuts and said to myself..... "well it's 9 years old, and I have the belt off, it's only about $200 and 5 minutes of my time, what the hell"
So I changed mine. But I can tell you that I checked the frequency of the belt (the right way to know if the tensioner spring is healthy), and it seemed like it was slightly out of rage before I changed it (loose), and in range perfectly, after I changed it. So I guess mine technically needed it.

 

You did not get the one which holds the beer can then, all the Aussie ones have the coldie pocket

 

I got it out. So there are 3 bolts: approximately 9, 3 and 5 o'clock positions. The 3 o'clock bolt is the hardest to get to and mine was stripped. I ended up squeezing a 3/8" ratchet between the p/s and ac lines. Had I not used a rotating ratchet, I don't think a conventional ratchet would have worked since there is no room to move the handle and you'd risk damaging the hard ac pipe. Replaced the belt and the stripped bolt. All good now.
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