488 GPF exhaust solutions for Pista

How come there are so many complaints about turbo sounding car, remember the f40? Sounds awesome and has turbos. What makes newer ones disappointing ? Is this just that expectations have changed and we got spoiled with n/a engines?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

A bit of both I’d say. Plus, back then when the F40 was produced, there weren’t significant environmental restrictions. In most places, none at all in fact, and that helps a car sound like a proper Ferrari.

Kind regards,

Nuno.

 

I don't think engine sound/ exhaust sound is one of the F40s best attributes- especially stock. With Tubi, the F40 sounds better.

The difference- the F40 is what it is because racing rules dictated Ferrari go with turbo for the 288.

This time around it was a combination (my opinion) of horsepower war with the competition and environmental regulations that forced their hand to go with turbo.

The distinction is important because it goes towards grabbing one's imagination: The F40 is what it is because racing! The 488 is because... bureaucrats!

In the end they have delivered us a staggeringly powerful and fun to drive engine- especially in Pista form. It just sounds different because it is different and some will like the sound more than others.

 

Agree wholeheartedly. You’ve hit the nail on the head, Jerry!

Kind regards,

Nuno.

 

Thanks Nuno, it happens once in a while lol

 

Is it 2 or 3 layers? At first I thought it's Fuji. Beautiful, simply beautiful. I love these painta under the sun!

 

Not really...

 

With a tubi it sounds better than a 488 to me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

We always compare stock cars! Elementary dear Watson...

 

Even stock...i mean than 488 is very quiet


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

A loud noise is not necessarily a nice sound. A hoover is loud also...
The F40 didn't have to abide by the noise limits that modern cars have to. Still, its sound was nothing special, harmonious or melodic.

 

Put a kreissieg on a testarossa and I guarantee it is as close as it gets to an old school f1. Had one on mine-made 60mph feel like 125mph


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I would reverse the order, stock for stock of course. But yes, they both sound divinely.

 

On a Pista no but F8 apparently for sure. With Pista it has no pressure sensor post the turbo so removing the vacuum lines - as evidenced by junc's accounts to date - doesn't appear to trigger a CEL thankfully. Hopefully it never will which should mean that mean the Forza prototype valve controller I've just had installed will also prove fine - CEL free.

It also appears that a freer flowing muffler can be fitted to Pista without CEL but again from what I'm told the valves on Pista are open a lot of the time anyway unlike the 488 so, the gas is flowing free as a straight through system, clear of the muffler anyway (most of the time) under throttle.

Also told the main sound gains to be had from Pista is by changing the cats to higher flowing 200 cel but a very high chance of CEL is there as this change will be felt upstream at one point due to the sensors picking up the change in pulse and, that a plug in to remove the CEL when it does occur or, a remap is the only solution to fix that problem.

With F8 you don't have any of these options unless you go for a total remap and remove stuff like cat/gpf and that means goodbye warranty. Other thing to keep in mind using (a successful) valve controller solution or, if disconnecting the lines to the valves (on Pista) (like junc has done) there will be a sacrifice in throttle response and engine performance in general hence why it's best to control the valves by way of controller, returning them back to the stock setting during performance driving.

 

It was explained to me that turbo charged cars prefer less back pressure which is why larger downpipes can provide big power gains especially when tuned to take advantage. For NA cars I understand that unplugging the valves may reduce throttle response at the low end. I am sure there is more to it but I can see how screwing with these things will reduce performance in general unless the sw is remapped accordingly. Also, adding a 3rd party exhaust in my experience often times reduces performance so you have to be careful what you change on your car.

I changed the downpipes and exhaust on my first 72o which made an incredible difference in sound. I dont know that I would do the same with the Pista, IMO it sounds fine.

 

Sorry my bad.

This is true for sure Gh but as I explained earlier the Ferrari v8 turbo works differently where the engineers have designed a balancing act between the waste-gates and valves which allows a faster recovery rate, keeping the boost on the boil as much as possible, and that is what gives this engine such an immediate throttle response and linear power delivery. Now if you remove something from that equation - such as remove the valves altogether or take the control of the valves away from the ECU then you really can't expect to retain the same level of performance as what the engineers provided.

I think putting an aftermarket system on a Pista isn't so much of a big deal at all so long as the valves are retained and can still be controlled by the ECU. Note that the Pista muffler has very little attenuation vs the gtb muffler hence why Pista is still quite loud on start and idle. So, for aftermarket system to give more sound it needs to basically have zero attenuation and a set of high flow cats which will deliver the bulk of extra volume. But then the when the valves close the system loses the straight through and this is where the valve controller is really good as you can change things on the fly by keeping the valves open to suit your taste and needs.

Anyway an hour ago I collected my Pista with the Forza prototype valve controller and I can tell you for sure it sounds better than in the stock setting so, with a high flow cat system with valved muffler it can be made even louder again. My ears also tell me some of the gurgling has returned too on throttle release. So yeah I'm pretty happy with it and would definitely recommend it once Steve officially puts it to market.

PS. Also note that once higher flow cats are introduced the flow and turbo spool changes which becomes detected up stream which can cause the ECU to throw a CEL light up on the dash once the other systems are unable to compensate however, apparently the engine won't go into limp mode and, the CEL can be cleared using a plug in dongle. The alternative to that happening is a remap.

But for me right this minute after my recent drive home - and I'm going to take my car for a decent run soon so I know for sure that I'm happy and, the valve controller system will run CEL free in all situations - but for now I can say this prototype is doing enough of a job for me to be satisfied - just as an FYI to you guys with Pistas who are a little underwhelmed with the current cruising and/or off throttle note/volume.

 

I'm sure emissions equipment plays a large role. Also, the V8 in the F40 has a significantly shorter stroke - that can alter the sound of the motor. Probably most of the great sounding F40's are running basically straight pipes off the IHI turbos.

Interestingly, if you run straight pipes and an aftermarket exhaust on the 488, it sounds pretty darn good. I've driven behind 488's with open valves and de-cat "test pipes" and they sound really good. Maybe not as good as an F40, but pretty darn close.

Ray

 

Im pretty sure Bianco Avus is a standard non metallic paint- Im not sure if that is 2 layers or 1 layer. Rosso F1 2007 I am pretty sure is 3 layers.

 

I also love the sound of the Enzo, its a deeper sound, not quite as high pitched. Is it a surprise we are discussing sound and NA V12 engines in Ferrari supercars?

To put us back on track, something we have to understand about the SF90, and to an extent the Pista-- a shift has happened with Ferrari. No longer is it cylinder count that determines maximum power offered- and thus- maximum prestige in the lineup. The new flagship production car is the SF90- a V8 turbo hybrid. The V8 engine is a development of the Pista engine- itself very closely related to Ferrari's racing turbo V8s- and those built upon what you can have in a 488 GTB and Spider. What you have with the Pista is a car that performance wise will rival and perhaps even surpass what you can get even in the LF due to less weight and (comparing original equipment specs) better tires.

This shift had to happen, there's a new generation coming up and they look for different things, a product of a changing world. I am very glad Ferrari is making sure they are at the forefront, even if it means some things aren't exactly to my liking because my preferences are based off things from the past. Ferrari will look to surprise and delight us with new ways of doing things. The Pista engine may not have the sound we are used to, and maybe I will eat these words with more experience, but I am convinced the Pista is a real benchmark car for those of us who like big power in a lighter weight package- I am afraid going forward it will need more hybrid tech, which brings many positives, but it also brings much added weight.

 

Great explanation !


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

The LF is a lot quicker.

 

Bianco Avus is a normal twin step non-metallic white. Colour+clear. Interesting considering some dealers have said Ferrari won't do stripes on Avus as they have issues with bleed-out. I suspect this is a bunch of BS some dealers say to get people to pay for Italia instead of Avus...

Rosso F1 2007 is a four layer which is why it is even more expensive than most other colours. Not sure Ferrari has more that 3-4 four layer paints in their lineup all together.