Sourcing Titanium Connecting rods

I would not bother with the expense. Even Ferrari is going away from them, they went back to steel rods in the 575 because they felt the reduced strength of the titanium units would compromise durability. Call Carillo, light, strong, cheap in comparison and are installed in many of the worlds fastest motors.

 

These are the sources in the 'conrods' section from the back of Racecar Engineering. Good luck with the project.

Arias Forged Pistons: 310-532-9737
Arrow Precision: www.arrowprecision.co.uk
Atech Motorsports: 330-630-0888
Carillo: 949-498-1800
Crower: 619-422-1191
Manley Performance: 732-905-3366
Oliver: 616-451-8333


You may also want to call Eagle Rods. www.eaglerod.com Their website is awful but they do sell Ti con rods.

 

I work on a car at Bonneville, I see more Carillo's there than anything else and I have never seen a motor built with them "Put a leg out of bed" as a result of rod failure. I think they make a great product.

 

Any update on replacing your rods? Did you go with Carillo or Titanium?

Could the author who said, "Even Ferrari is going away from them, they went back to steel rods in the 575 because they felt the reduced strength of the titanium units would compromise durability" please give an update. I have not been able to find any quotes by the factory to support this. I believe the F430 is using Titanium Rods. I believe Titanium as a metal is actually stronger than steel and many top race car builders (including endurance racers) continue to use titanium parts.

I believe steel is cheaper but does not have reduced strength or durability, but I could be wrong.

Thanks.

 

Hey Brian

I thought TI was not only stronger but lighter than steel? Please explain.

 

On the motors with high reciprocating speeds they may still be using TI rods as a way to keep reciprocating mass induced stresses down but on the motors that put high stresses on the rods , the torque monsters like the 575, they went back to steel. Ti parts are used for many things especially since the country with the most Ti and the most experience at manufacturing and machining it (a fledgling eastern democracy referred to as Russia) have quite a few people and machine tools sitting around idle waiting to wittle parts out of it for you at a price that cannot be matched in the west.

Titanium is not a miracle metal. It has a nice niche between aluminum and steel. It is LIGHTER than STEEL and STRONGER than ALUMINUM. The inverse of either statement is not true.

It is soft and a mother to machine. I have seen a Ti rod knocked off a standard height work bench and knock it's own big end out of round. VERY specific precautions and methods have to be followed to keep from ripping the rod bolt threads right out of them. Many of the Ferrari motors that came equipped with them have already been switched back to steel. In many cases it is a cheaper alternative to rebuilding the Ti units.

The 355 motor was originally designed to have a 10k redline but long term durability testing showed that timing belt life at those speeds was unacceptably short so it was reduced to 8.5k. The Ti rods that were used for that high redline were kept and are still being used as the BMEP in the V8's still allows the use of them without being overstressed. But they are not needed. It should also be said that many of the early 355 rods broke. Subtle design changes around the rod bolt area were required to reduce stress risers causing the problems. Ferrari has never had a connecting rod problem previous to this.

In all piston engines except the ones where such high reciprocating speeds and weights test the very limits of material technology (F1 comes to mind) high quality well designed steel rods are superior.


If I was building a motor I was going to rev the pee out of I would be calling the folks at Carrillo.

 

Once again, another insightful post from Rifledriver. Thanks.
I also used Carrillo rods in race motors that were revved to slightly above 9000RPM all afternoon and NEVER had a problem with them. I re-used them over and over after having them magnafluxed at teardown. I only had to replace the rod bolts from time to time because they stretched too much when being torqued.

Good advice.....

John

 

Hmmm, anybody know where I can get a gear driven cam system for my 355, 10,000rpm would sound delightful

 

We used carillo rods in the F40 motor and we are making almost 200hp per litre.
I didn't think the few grams of weight saved for the extra money were worth the possible failure.
Carillo also has a steel rod that is lighter than the Ti rods that may now be available to the public.

 

Titanium is lighter than steel for a given strength profile and stronger than aluminum for a given weight.

Titanium is indeed a miracle material. The limitations are that it costs 10x steel for the same weight and is exceedingly tough to machine because the melting point of titanium is double that of steel and higher than carbide, so a cutting tool does not effectively shear the titanium because the heat generated is not carried away in the chip as it's formed as happens with steel and aluminum (plastic deformation to you wizards). In short, the steel or titanium cutting edge will deconstruct long before the heat required to properly cut titanium is reached.

Titanium can be post processed to avoid the above noted softness. All these processing costs make titanium a difficult material to use in commercial production. Jet engines and fighter planes seem to be the biggest users.

All that said, Carillo makes superb steel rods but if I were trying for the ultimate in low reciprocating mass, I'd look hard at titanium. Just be prepared to pay a lot for the privilege.

 

You could always use what the Space Shuttle uses for its support beams and brake rotors: Beryllium.

Beryllium metal didn't become readily available to industry until 1957, but the metal has many desirable properties. It is one of the lightest of all metals, and it has one of the highest melting points of the light metals. Its modulus of elasticity is about one third greater than that of steel. It resists attack by concentrated nitric acid, has excellent thermal conductivity, and is nonmagnetic.

Be has an atomic number 4. Helium gas has an atomic number of 2.

Titanium, in contrast, has an atomic number of 22. Aluminum is 13. Iron is 26. Carbon is 6 (Iron + Carbon = steel).

Of course, price does factor in. Buying in small quantities is expensive. A single 0.125mm x 50mm x 50mm piece of pure Be foil will set you back $2024.

 

Not to derail this thread, but if you are working on a street model Ferrari, another strategy to improve performance would be to shed weight. Carbon fiber bumpers, door skins, hood and under trays, and even wheels rims, could lighten the car by 40 kg or more.

 

Dangerous to your health to machine or grind!

 

Ti rods are really only meant for works cars-expense no object: just winning....
when Ti rods fail-always- on the compression stroke, they shatter and look like a broken windshield-so damage is "extensive"-in otherwords: melt it down...

I you are hell bent-the only Ti rods worth spending the $$$ on are made by Pankl-but you are almost 100% going to be over 20K USD-last set for a 908 Langhect was 32K, as a point of reference...

so, tey are NOT worth the money in any measure versus steel, that you will be able to differentiate in practical application
IMO...

 

Ferrari used titanium con rods on the production 550. When the ProDrive team tried them on their racing engines, they broke, so they went to steel rods. The 575M follow-on to the 550 reverted to steel rods. Ferrari did much the same thing when they went from the Type 140 engine in the Enzo to the Type 140 in the 599. Cost and strength are both issues.

 

Interesting you say Pankl Ti Rods are the best. Ducati used the Pankl Ti rods in the special edition bikes (like the SPS). They are known to fail when the engines are pushed on the track and are expected to be replaced often. Most Ducati owners, will go with Carillo rods when replacing conrods.

I have been pondering about the differences between Ducati and Ferrari when it came to the Ti connecting rods. Seems most of the 90's era vehicle had very exotic technology in engines (Ti rods, 5 valves, etc). The motors are certainly different and the rpms are roughly 2,000 higher on a Ducati than Ferrari. Yet, Ducati Ti rods fail more often than Ferrari Ti rods. However, most of the time for Ducati Ti rods, the big end becomes stretched leading to rod slap and damage to the crank.

As most have stated, Ti is truly meant for race applications where performance and winning far exceeds the cost and labor for Ti rods.

Keeping the vehicle OEM specific, would be the only other reason to purchase Ti rods.