New GPF = worse exhaust note on new Ferraris? | Page 3 | FerrariChat

New GPF = worse exhaust note on new Ferraris?

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by RayJohns, Jun 22, 2019.

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  1. MANDALAY

    MANDALAY F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed Silver Subscribed

    May 23, 2013
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    ANGELO
    With all this talk about GPF no one has mentioned the most critical park the FUEL. If the fuel is high in sulphur the GPF will be poisoned, inoperative.

    Hence countries like Europe and China mandating the use of GPF have low sulphur petrol.

    How about the States ?

    Well back down under , no go Sulphur to high = No GPF :) well certainly not until 2027 at best.

    So Aussie cars wont have the GPF the way i see it, which means that Ferrari either drops their sales here or the will be 2 variants of the exhaust.

    BTW as my dealer this week end with regards to the F8 and he didn't even know what I was talking about so clearly something no being discussed here.
     
  2. Bundy

    Bundy Formula 3

    May 18, 2011
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    Anir
    I think the F8 admittedly sounds a little better in the following video. Still not as good as the Pista though.

     
  3. JTSE30

    JTSE30 F1 Rookie

    Oct 1, 2004
    3,242
    Austin TX
    Well, I replied in a different thread, there are many now. And no dealers will be aware of GPF unless customers present it to them as Ferrari has not said anything yet (presumably service technicians would be the first to learn and they don't know about it yet either)

    But, word is Ferrari will use GPF for all destinations and will apparently just deal with GPF warranty issues as they occur..

    fuel map:

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  4. JasonN

    JasonN Formula Junior

    Sep 24, 2017
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    I'm with you. My 458 is the only Ferrari I have ever owned. I can't imagine an exhaust note sounding better than a 458's at 9000 rpm with the top down.
     
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  5. dustman

    dustman F1 Veteran
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    Jun 12, 2007
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    Maybe CGT or F50?

    But I’m with you.
     
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  6. ajr550

    ajr550 Formula Junior

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    Challenge Stradale
     
  7. ScrappyB

    ScrappyB Formula 3

    Oct 3, 2017
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    Add to that an LFA and 812 SF.
     
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  8. JasonN

    JasonN Formula Junior

    Sep 24, 2017
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    I have an 812SF being built now so I’ll be able to compare;)
     
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  9. Surfah

    Surfah F1 Rookie

    Dec 20, 2011
    3,135
    CS all the way.

    Friend did a canyon run with Leno in his LFA said it sounds amazing.
     
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  10. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Veteran
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    Feb 4, 2014
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    LFA has sound but its synthetic and has no hard guts behind it IMO. Not in the same league as the 6.5L in the 812 or the 6.3L in the F12. Not even close.
     
  11. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 World Champ
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    It seems these manufacturers will always comprise to save a buck. While Porsche will NOT put the GPF on USA market 991 and 992 cars they are too cheap to install a proper new engineering spec. Instead they simply install baffles to mimic the same back pressure for the engine when equipped with the GPF. The same cheap mentality that gave us dieselgate continues to scheme away at saving a buck... :(
     
  12. dustman

    dustman F1 Veteran
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    LFA is epic. In the top 10 of all time.
     
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  13. plastique999

    plastique999 F1 Veteran
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    Nov 9, 2008
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    Agree CGT and Speciale (header back) for me are neck and neck...CGT by a thin margin as it is stock.


    Sent from my 16M
     
  14. TheMagician

    TheMagician Rookie

    Oct 25, 2018
    22
    Czech Republic
    So almost two weeks ago I was able to compare two 812 SF sitting next to each other.
    The first car was a car delivered in 2018 (presumably 2019 MY) without GPF and 5000km on the clock and next to it was brand new 812 SF model year 2020 with GPF and 48 km (delivery km).
    The sales specialist revved both for me so I can hear the difference for my self. It was obvious that GPF version was muted and the tone was slightly different, but it was not tragic as it is with the new 911's, new AMG G63, F8 Tributo or R8. The reason for that is that the car is naturally aspirated, so you do not hear the annoying whining noise of turbos, and the engine can simply rev more. The GPF car was definitely Ferrari v12 and I guess that many will not be disappointed by the sound. It is slightly less loud, and the tone is a bit different and the non-GPF car is definitely better sounding car, however, you will notice the difference only if the cars are next to each other. So I guess that for many people getting 812 SF will not be a problem, and less for guys who ordered 812 GTS. However, for us, who wanted to modify the exhaust to obtain v12 f1 sound it is bad news as there is no easy way to modify the exhaust system without tinkering with ECU, which means loss of the warranty. I know, you can argue, that any tinkering with the exhaust voids the warranty, but in reality it is not true, if you can prove that the different muffler did not cause the engine failure, then your warranty is not void ( every single of my cars is modified and there were no issues with warranty in case something not related broke). But if you will modify ECU, then you are pretty much in a world of problems with the warranty. So for me, the MY2020 is, unfortunately, a no go
     
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  15. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie
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    I don't find the whining sound of turbos annoying one bit. And, adding that sound of squeezing forced air into the cylinders along with the Ferrari exhaust note is just music to the ears especially under full throttle. Bring it on!! Nothing quite like the brutal thrust of endless torque coming from an engine with serious purpose.
     
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  16. junc

    junc Formula Junior
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    Thanks for the insight. Is there anything in the engine bay of an 812 that indicates a car has GPF? The actual filters are too hidden I would think.



    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
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  17. TheMagician

    TheMagician Rookie

    Oct 25, 2018
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    I guess it depends on your personal preference, I do like the sound of AMG's 4.0l twin-turbo V8, but I do not prefer Tributo's engine sound. Thousand people have a thousand opinions.
     
  18. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie
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    Amgs twin turbo 8 wouldn't rate for me alongside any Ferrari engine but maybe I'm biased. I see no point getting a bit ahead of oneself second guessing how good or bad it will be with a GPF. Obviously it's going to be quieter on the outside if not by a huge amount but as a car I'm quite sure once you're behind the tiller pressing the pedal to the metal the F8 will take on a whole new meaning.

    Worse case scenario you'll have to ditch the entire system and remap the ecu with a whole new pipe arrangement .....but let's wait and see. Pretty sure it will be sensational either way.
     
  19. TheMagician

    TheMagician Rookie

    Oct 25, 2018
    22
    Czech Republic
    I do not think that you will be able to see it. GPF will be located at the bottom of the car, close to the engine right after catalic converters. All Model years 2020 have it
     
  20. TheMagician

    TheMagician Rookie

    Oct 25, 2018
    22
    Czech Republic
    I have no doubts that f8 Tributo is a superb car to drive, but for me personally, the sound drama is what I expect from Ferrari which is not that present with f8. I do own speciale with race exhaust and it can be too much for some, but that is the way I like it. Sometimes you can easily remove GPF, mu friend did that in his AMG g63 which sounded terrible, and it was not a problem, as AMG's GPF is not connected with any electronics (they do a "test" montage for this year, I was told by AMG mechanic) - so my friend simply cut that part away. WIth some other cars, the GPF will not be a piece which you can easily cut off as it is a part of a much larger piece. This is the case of tributo. So my guess is, that on tributo, you will be able to modify the rear end of exhaust - the rear muffler, which will add some sound, but you will not be able to affect the overall tone that much. With AMG's it is easy, only what you have to do is to change the downpipes, and replace cats for some sport cats and the sound is elevated to the next level.
    I have contacted Novitec some time ago and asked them if they can provide their Novitec exhaust for MY2020 Superfast and the answer was no, and we are not sure if we can do it because of GPF.
     
  21. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie
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    #71 Shadowfax, Sep 24, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2019
    For sure GPF is a huge problem. With F8 I was informed changing the rear muffler will affect the back-pressure and change the pulse. The sensors post turbo and cat will pick these changes up no question and the engine won't run properly. The operation of the electronically activated waste gates and exhaust system valves are dependent upon the system being left bone stock. No way around it without spending big bucks and toasting your warranty. Same applies to all the new Ferrari's with GPF. The next phase will be full electric with no sound other than what is fabricated for the driver inside. Pista is the last real bastion for the ICE that can be remotely played around with easily. The rest - see ya later. A definite case for ticking the upgraded stereo box as you are gonna need that at the very least.
     
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  22. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
    7,658
    Bournemouth, UK
    Exhaust sound tends to get louder once the catalytic converters have been broken in, so it wouldn't amaze me if the two cars sounded about the same in the end.
     
  23. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie
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    #73 Shadowfax, Sep 24, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2019
    Not sure how that one works as the cats and GPF can only get quieter as they gradually choke up along with the intake systems. We aren't talking aftermarket hi flow 100 or 200 cel here - 600 cel is the gold standard (stock) these days I believe. But nothing wrong with thinking positively though. Everything helps when rolling out the hard earned in hope of a dream fulfilled.
     
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  24. TheMagician

    TheMagician Rookie

    Oct 25, 2018
    22
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    That could be true, also the new car is in "transportation mode" where I guess, it cannot be revved that much.
     
  25. KarlA69

    KarlA69 Formula Junior

    Oct 9, 2017
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    Thanks for the info. That is a concern if it's true - I have ordered 812 GTS and had hoped that any dulling/quietening of the noise due to GPF could be compensated with exhaust mods (sports cats, Novitec rear boxes, and x pipe). I would expect the clever people at Novitec, Capristo etc would have some sort of solution, even with GPF present...?

    Also, does your comment apply equally to non-turbo engines (i.e. for the 812, would it also be difficult to do exhaust mods if GPF is fitted?)
     

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