Shift shaft seals | Page 3 | FerrariChat

Shift shaft seals

Discussion in '308/328' started by Rod, Sep 17, 2019.

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  1. Martin308GTB

    Martin308GTB F1 Rookie

    Jan 22, 2003
    4,212
    Black Forest Germany
    Full Name:
    Martin N.
    No over-engineering please :)
    Basically the Quad-rings (or X-rings) were intended for sealing rotating shafts or for static sealing purposes. At least Trelleborg, one of he first manufacturers says so. No mentioning of sealing longitudinally movements.
    I used the stock O-rings back then in 2002. All still tight and dry.

    Best from Germany
    Martin
     
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  2. miketuason

    miketuason F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Feb 24, 2006
    15,517
    Cerritos, CA.
    Full Name:
    Mike
    Me too, installed the original 7 years ago and still dry, not a single drop of oil.
     
  3. TommyA

    TommyA Formula Junior

    Oct 7, 2002
    549
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    Tommy A
    Oh God!! I started by installing the original seals. After reading all the posts switched to the X seal. Now this :( Thank God I still have it out of the vehicle! Maybe use one of each and see how it goes I guess! LOL!!
     
  4. Rod

    Rod Formula Junior

    Jan 18, 2004
    869
    South Derbyshire
    Full Name:
    Rod
    A little confused now, do these x seals require an additional O ring or do they fit on their own and provide the seal? Thanks
     
  5. derekw

    derekw Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 7, 2010
    1,520
    London, UK
    Full Name:
    Derek W
    The x seals are definitely tighter and have two sealing lips but given how little most of these cars are driven I think it makes little difference. The x-seals seal on the shaft and on the OD of the holes in the case. They do move axially and putting an o-ring (gear oil tolerant) next to the x-ring would stop it sliding within the hole which may help and won't harm the seal. Many fchatters have successfully used the x-rings for many years without the additional side support so the evidence is they do work-- as do the originals :)
     
    absostone likes this.
  6. Rod

    Rod Formula Junior

    Jan 18, 2004
    869
    South Derbyshire
    Full Name:
    Rod
    Thank You..
     
  7. mwr4440

    mwr4440 Five Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 8, 2007
    55,828
    Bavaria, The 'Other' Germany
    Full Name:
    Mark W.R.
    Yep.

    I just didn't feel comfy so I put-in an o-ring to stop the movement.

    It has little to no sealing properties in this application.

    I don't recall the diameter of the o-ring or circumference.

    I just measured the 'indent'of the X,

    X<
    |
    X<

    to the same point across the diameter and tried several until I got one to work.

    Sorry.
     
  8. Martin308GTB

    Martin308GTB F1 Rookie

    Jan 22, 2003
    4,212
    Black Forest Germany
    Full Name:
    Martin N.
    I dug deeper into the subject again and as opposed to my post above, it's indeed possible to use the Quad-rings for reciprocating applications. But for this purpose it is necessary to use backup rings to avoid extrusion into the gap. But we don't have the necessary space for backup rings on our application. Sorry Mark. But your procedure would make me fear, that the ring would be forced to extrude into the gap even more.
    For further informations here's the link to a Trelleborg-pdf:

    https://www.tss.trelleborg.com/-/media/tss-media-repository/tss_website/pdf-and-other-literature/catalogs/quadring_gb_en.pdf?revision=57d250be-164f-48eb-abef-29e4eb6d357e

    Best from Germany
    Martin
     
  9. derekw

    derekw Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 7, 2010
    1,520
    London, UK
    Full Name:
    Derek W
    Martin, given the tiny clearance, the relatively short axial shaft movement, and the permanent bath of oil, it would be almost impossible for the lips to get pulled into that gap. People have been fitting them for at least 13 years and no reported failures that I could find when I made this decision. There are quite a few people who have had the original o-rings fail but those are probably all after 30+ years of wear.
     
  10. Freddie328

    Freddie328 Formula Junior

    Jul 29, 2013
    290
    Herts, UK
    Full Name:
    Richard
    Experience needed!!
    I bought new gearbox/engine sump joints from Maranello Classic Parts, and these are supposedly Ferrari approved.
    Question is do they need installing dry or with sealant?
    The ones that came off were not leaking, same thickness as the new ones but black in colour with no brand markings.
    I recently changed the sump joint on another make of car and the instructions specifically said do not use additional sealant.
    What are peoples experience of installing these gaskets without sealant?
    The guys at Maranello were non committal!
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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  11. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    12,661
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    No sealant. The most I would use if a copper spray to glue it in place while it is being installed
     
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  12. Freddie328

    Freddie328 Formula Junior

    Jul 29, 2013
    290
    Herts, UK
    Full Name:
    Richard
    Apart from the shaft seal leak I noticed a leak from the dipstick tube union (the part that screws to the sump with a copper sealing washer). A close look confirmed that it was finger tight. So I've annealed the washer and tightened it back in. But what about the dipstick tube sealing? The oil level will be above this union when all the oil has drained back into the sump and metal to metal seals between union nut, dip tube and dipstick tube nut seems a bit odd. Do folk find this joint is oil tight without applying some sort of sealant?
    I don't really want to add sealant unless necessary, as getting the tube out a later date may prove to be a PITA.
     
  13. Lawrence Coppari

    Lawrence Coppari Formula 3

    Apr 29, 2002
    2,149
    Kingsport, TN
    Full Name:
    Lawrence A. Coppari
    Dip tube and dipstick tube nut have never leaked and I've had mine off several times. Hold the lower nut, the one with the CU crush washer, and tighten the tube nut against it.
     

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