Timing drive shaft damage | FerrariChat

Timing drive shaft damage

Discussion in '308/328' started by TommyA, Sep 30, 2019.

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  1. TommyA

    TommyA Formula Junior

    Oct 7, 2002
    549
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    Tommy A
  2. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    26,354
    socal
    Yes. That is an easy fix . You tig weld on more metal on the damaged side then hand cut the woodruff keyway back into the shaft and of cousre file away the excess to match the diameter. It is easy to do with time and patience.
     
  3. TommyA

    TommyA Formula Junior

    Oct 7, 2002
    549
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    Tommy A
    Thank you!! I will give it a try and post the results. Can it be done on the housing or it has to be removed? Just changed the bearing and seal :(
     
  4. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    26,354
    socal
    I think you need to take it off and hold it in your hand. It is a labor intensive hand skill thing and you need to be able to move it around in 3d space to make a nearly undetectable repair. If however, you are mr. golden hands maybe you can do it insitu. Some people just have freaky amazing skills.
     
  5. TommyA

    TommyA Formula Junior

    Oct 7, 2002
    549
    Atlanta
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    Tommy A
  6. sp1der

    sp1der F1 Rookie

    Jan 10, 2009
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    Simon Ashley
    Would suggest a new gear
     
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  7. derekw

    derekw Formula 3
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    If the teeth are good, a decent machine shop can spray-weld or tig weld and machine it for you (probably under $100.) A new one will cost over $500 unless you are lucky. Maranello parts have them new for £468.
     
  8. sp1der

    sp1der F1 Rookie

    Jan 10, 2009
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    Crikey they have gone up a bit I think I replaced both of the drive gears for less than £500
     
  9. TommyA

    TommyA Formula Junior

    Oct 7, 2002
    549
    Atlanta
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    Tommy A
    I just took it to a machine shop and they said that they can fix it. I should have images of the repaired gear by the weekend. What a mess :(. Guys please have a look at the back side of the gear cover. Are the seals installed correctly? Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  10. derekw

    derekw Formula 3
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    Yes, That's correct for the year you have. Try to get the NTN 6203LLUA1C4 bearings as they were the best available a couple of years ago (viton seals, high temp grease C4 clearance.) This is a known weak link so use the best you can find. Give the bearing to the shop as it should be quite tight (and make sure it's machined concentric!)
     
  11. sp1der

    sp1der F1 Rookie

    Jan 10, 2009
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    Simon Ashley
    Is the pulley ok looking at state of the shaft that may also need some attention?
     
  12. TommyA

    TommyA Formula Junior

    Oct 7, 2002
    549
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    Tommy A
    The pulley was not all that bad. I purchased the aluminum gear years ago so it doesn't really matter.
     
  13. TommyA

    TommyA Formula Junior

    Oct 7, 2002
    549
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    Tommy A
    What was in there was the SKF 6203-2RS1 bearing. Are you suggesting not to use the same type of bearing?
     
  14. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,835
    Isle of man- uk
    By the time you have welded this up and machined the keyway in it and machine the shaft concentric below the thread you might be cheaper getting the machine shop to make a new one. Its in such a state plus the heat of welding is not going to help to keep it straight.
    The cost of a new one is worth paying . I would not waste money trying to fix that
     
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  15. ferrariowner

    ferrariowner Formula 3

    Feb 21, 2014
    1,109
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    Ron
    I would replace if for nothing else than piece of mind. If it breaks, shears or fails, engine destruction will follow.
     
  16. TommyA

    TommyA Formula Junior

    Oct 7, 2002
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    Mike,
    A good friend owns the machine shop so I know that he will do the right thing. When I saw him this morning he sounded very confident and he wanted to give it a try. I'm very sure that if he things that it will be unsafe to use he will let me know. I went this far with this project so another $500 will not really kill me to get another gear. Let's see how it goes.
     
  17. sp1der

    sp1der F1 Rookie

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    And if this fails the engine will sustain fairly serious damage. It's hard to imagine how this got so butchered.
     
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  18. TommyA

    TommyA Formula Junior

    Oct 7, 2002
    549
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    Tommy A
    I was shocked to see it in such condition. The previous owner repaired it and they used the same gear :(
     
  19. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Aug 10, 2002
    26,354
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    Replace it if available.
     
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  20. TommyA

    TommyA Formula Junior

    Oct 7, 2002
    549
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    Tommy A
    Just made some calls to check the price. Anywhere from $800 to over $1,000 each!! They used to be $125 just a few years ago.
     
  21. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,835
    Isle of man- uk
    The one thing i would say if that the present damage shows that the woodruff key has been rocking side to side a lot- the danger is in what you cannot see.
    Just dont end up with the shaft shearing due to it being weak.
    I could fix it up so it looked new but i would not trust it.
     
  22. derekw

    derekw Formula 3
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    If they haven't welded yet, get them to dye-check for any cracks at the bottom of the woodruff key slot. When properly tightened, the woodruff key is for location mostly since the friction between the pulley and the locked nut on one side and the inner race on the other holds it in place. I know several people who removed pins/keys on cam pulleys without an issue. I would be more worried about the fatigue right where the shaft comes out of the bearing race so this should be properly heat treated after welding (but not the gear teeth which are probably hardened.) Are your lower pulleys aluminium? Check them for wear in the slot.

    The bearings should be 6203-2RS1/C4 and preferably with high temp grease and seals.
     
  23. TommyA

    TommyA Formula Junior

    Oct 7, 2002
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    Tommy A
    The lower pulleys are brand new never fitted to the vehicle. I though that C4 bearings have more internal clearance. Won't that cause a premature failure?
     
  24. derekw

    derekw Formula 3
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    These bearings run very hot so require the extra clearance (plus better grease, seals.) If your lower pulleys are aluminium, make sure they are 7075T6. The clamping force from that 17x1mm nut is 3824kg (8429lbs)
     
  25. TommyA

    TommyA Formula Junior

    Oct 7, 2002
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    Tommy A
    The pulleys are part of the kit that Nicks is selling. I would assume that they are excellent quality. What clearance the stock bearings have? C1 or C2 ?
     

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