FORMULA 1 VTB RUSSIAN GRAND PRIX 2019: RACE ▄▀▄▀ SPOILERS ▀▄▀▄

Great post.

I wanted to add as well, connection with SF either through ownership of their cars or stock in no way make me or others more qualified in our opinions. Nor is this a litmus test to passionately and wholeheartedly be part of the team.

So why mentioned?

The reason I brought it up was to explain why I follow the team over the driver. Not to say I can't hold other drivers in esteem on other organizations (I think Hamilton is excellent.) The rise and fall of fortunes of drivers can have an emotional connection with me. Vettel has not delivered a championship (ala Raikonnen) - he has not entered my endearment as deep as those that have.

An example of this would be Nikki Lauda (RIP.) He was competitor, but I always will have a deep respect for him for what he has given to the prancing horse. So you'll find I have very little cynical to say about him. (even when his team thoroughly trashes us)

Vettel so far has only delivered years of false hopes and dreams. Again, it brings me no pleasure to proclaim this; it just is what it is.

 

Agreed on all your points. I like Hamilton and believe once history is written he will go down as one of F1's all time greats. Yet, I still stated "Mercedes and Hamilton were the fortunate beneficiares of opportunistic tire strategy starting with the mediums and being gifted the Safety Car" which is being fairly objective.

Big fan of Alonso, believe he would have won (or been a lot more competitive) in either 2018's or this year's Scuderia.

 

F1 with these grid penalty rules and tire compound rules and strategy sucks! What happened to all out racing and not worrying about saving fuel and engines? Too much of the outcome is controlled from the pits.

 

Interesting because Scuderia still gave a 3-year extension before the 2017 season ended, despite only finishing 3rd & 4th in the years prior with them.
https://formula1.ferrari.com/en/extension-of-the-agreement-between-scuderia-ferrari-and-sebastian-vettel/

Vettel isn't the driver I follow close in the sport. But apparently, I've seen it repeated enough in the last month alone in this section that if one makes comments for anyone besides Charles, that's who they fan over rather than maybe try to objectively discuss?

To that question, what does anyone here owe to Charles then over Seb.? 2 victories and a current 3rd in standing? Seb. ended 2015 with 3 victories, 3rd in the WDC, missing the podium 6 times. With 5 races left this season, it doesn't appear Charles will accomplish that much more than Seb. in his first stint with the team, either.

Based on his extension being worth $138.5 million, he's only getting paid $46.2 million for being "worse" than Verstappen this year.
https://autoweek.com/article/formula-one/report-ferrari-f1s-sebastian-vettel-weighting-138-million-extension

And for that same $300 million over Vettel's time with Ferrari so far, he has beaten Max every year prior to 2019, so it's not all been for nothing in that comparison.

I believe this anger towards Seb. is discussion made only in the moment. Some are forgetting what the first half of the season showed: Seb. had 6 podiums, Charles had 5. Out of the first 12 races, Seb. finished ahead of Charles 8 times. Seb. is 21pts. behind now, mostly due to the MGU-K. So it looks silly to read some posts that appear as if Seb. has been this awful driver all his career in comparison to Charles. I like the kid and his potential, but he has gained quite a bit of entitlement since his wins, and some of the Tifosi have let his victories cloud some judgement over how accomplished Sebastian really is as a driver (again, last 2 seasons, he's only had Lewis in his way for the WDC). I also get that Seb. should be doing much better based on those same 2 previous seasons and his world titles.

But if the fans are optimistic and hopeful that this recent uptick in pace for Ferrari/Charles will carry over to 2020, maybe there can be some hope that Seb. has found rejuvenation over the last 2 races and will carry that momentum through the remainder of the season and into next year as well. Ignoring the team order drama (& RET) , these past 2 races are exactly what Ferrari needs next season & forward, esp. in a time where Red Bull is trying to find Max an equally quick teammate and McLaren is fielding some potential youngsters.

 

Such a deal!

 

Guys, I'm not the biggest Seb fan (at this point in time), but he has come alive. Can we be somewhat kind to him and give him a chance to see how he performs in the next few races? And if the car now suits his style, and he performs, he will be this year's hero, LeClerc will also be this year's hero, and the team will have given the Germans (excuse me, English) a calc' nel cullo (or kick in the ass), and that's what we want.

 

You can say they 'lucked out' but the fact is that going longer on the mediums gave them a large window where a safety car, virtual or otherwise, might give them an advantage. So they made their own luck to a large extent.

 

I'm not sure that's correct. Shortly after the Vettel virtual safety car period there was a full safety car when Russell's brakes failed. So it's possible (probable?) that Mercedes could have pitted then and still retained the lead.

 

That is a good point as well. When you realize you have a faster car, maybe a good idea to cover the Merc's tire strategy? Regardless, I think there was much fuss made about driver switching at Ferrari for no good reason. Particularly when the same fuss was not made the week previously regarding Mercedes.

Kevin

 

What you are actively forgetting is Ferrari purposely screwing over CL for most of the races this year. They've been taking podiums and a win off CL and gifting them to V. His performance doesn't seem so hot in the light of truth, does it?

 

I've been a big Vettel fan leading up to this year.

In retrospect, way too many spins and mistakes in close quarters. And then looking like a rookie plowing into Max followed by a random spin all alone on track. I think I've apologized for him too many times.

I think he is still nearly as fast as then come when out front. I would suggest he may not have that experience much going forward given Charles' raw speed in qualifying.

I still really like the guy, but Leclerc has REALLY opened my eyes.

Kevin

 

This is a great post, It made me re-think my position. Given Vettel is with us another year, what good does it do to whinge? As @Sig. Roma stated, wouldn't the smartest thing to do is be supportive? Why make a bad situation even worse with my criticism? @Sig. Roma, thank you, you have indeed given me some food for thought.

Ciao

 

Agree, we should suport since he's driving for our team...except of course if it was Alonso...

 

Indeed, I don't necessary blame SF either, I think it was clear to all the car was not up to par to Mercedes, hence 3rd and 4th may likely have been the best "anyone could have done."

From my armchair, to me it was errors, and lack of performance that ultimately what did him in last year, epitomized by the unforced crash in Germany.
His Germa fiasco further aggravated with being one-upped in the crucial second half of the season by the talented, but aging Raikonnen in Monza, Mexico, and Brazil.
He was beaten by the very talented (but in a less capable car) in 10 out of 20 races last year by Verstappen (although one was Max being CrashesHappen).

Normally nothing, but since he's been out qualifying Vettel, it's an affirmation of my point above. It's Charles' ability to confirm what we all have been thinking in the back of our minds? Is Vettel at least at the 'top' of the field in talent? This season has answered that question to me. Sadly.

While second place is a super-human accomplishment in this arena, to the top winner go all the spoils. I quote the movie Top Gun: "No points for second place"

To me the anger comes from Vettel making mistakes. Leclrec in the same car equalizes the equation, F1 is part driver part car. In a vacumn, it's easier for folks to be forgiving to Vettel when he is outperforming Raikonnen, at least we can always say - 'it's the car.' Leclrec with this consistent out racing of Vettel exposes his errors and puts a magnifying glass to them.

 

dead cat bounce ...

 

'Keep seeing reference to drivers of a team being in the same car. A reminder...they are not. The drivers do not share a car.
Anyone that has actually competed, nay, just plain used, anything, knows that the exact same model of whatever utensil does not guarantee the exact the same performance of each. Be it a gun, a television, a golf club, a knife, a football, a toilet, a bicycle, a pen. Whatever. By no means can one expect something as complicated as race cars (the individual parts, construction and setup), to exhibit exact same traits.....'never happen. (Anyone that does believe so is living a fantasy)
Thus, on any given moment, the balance of vehicle "advantage" within a team for the drivers can, and often does, change. It happened to SV in the middle of the race, big time, in Russia, no?
Just sayin'.....

 

Does that same truth consider the fact Vettel was the leading driver in points, meaning a higher position equates to a closer gap to Lewis? If so, congrats, this isn't some new game to Formula 1 to gift the leading driver podiums/wins. Tifosi fans should be well aware of Ferrari's history of favoritism during Schumacher's era.

And how has Charles become any different in the last 2 races then with his constant, "I understand but...." on the radio, wanting wins/position taken from Vettel and gifting them back to Charles?

 

Thanks guys, I have been critical of Vettels mistakes, and thought it might be better if he left. But who could replace him? And if the team has found the solution to his driving style, and he starts to perform, great !!

I'm not very good at understanding the aerodynamic differences between cars (and aside from a specialized person), I don't think many of us here are. And didn't Vettel's success in RB come with the blown diffuser? And I guess it was outlawed because it gave too much downforce on an off accelerator / re-accelerator application during the race.

A bit of speculation, might be the lack of rear downforce which caused so many of Vettel's mistakes, and perhaps the SF team found a way to mimick (using usual legal means) a blown diffuser car, and solving one of Vettel's biggest issue.

 

We'll see, could be.

 

F would never do it, but short term CL vs. FA would be a classic.
Long term, Ric

 

Thing about Ric is that he left Red Bull because he jnew max had preference...same will happen if he goes to Ferrari, and that's not what he wants...on the other hand he might not have another chance to grab a top car, because Renault is going nowhere!

 

Exactly, and time's running out.

 

Im thinking Ricciardo would JUMP at the chance to be in red.

This race was disappointing. Threw away a 1-2 through bad luck and micro management.

 

Disappointing race, but, big picture wise, Ferrari seems to finally have a car that would make ALO say "now we can fight!" Also worth noting, is that unlike the typical go with a former world champion strategy, they've done a great job of bringing LeClerc on board. Now if they could just manage pit stops and other strategy better.

 

I think they actualy are doing prettyu good in that department lately...let's see how it goes in Suzuka, merc is expected to be faster around there....