I know this new joiner is spicing things up. He may only have a few posts in the tr world but he is feisty Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It’s the investor of these cars that gets mad most of the time. If you bought the car because you love it and enjoy it who cares if you over paid for it. Don’t hate the player hate the game!
That being say no one will disagree with the new member/participant when he says some cars do very well. Got to be fair Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Bought my 1990 TR in June for $129,900 CDN (approx. $97,500 USD) with 14,633 km (approx. 9,100 miles). So, I would say that natkingcolebasket69's numbers are pretty much spot-on. If anything, I got a steal. No intentions to sell, just to enjoy.
so Car #1 has 1,000 miles and Car #2 has just 139 actual miles Hmmmm….are these two cars "representative" of the overall TR market ???? LOL !
I would say that to get to those 100k prices it takes; often time. For instance the Ron Tonkin car was for over 6 months at 140k, then 135k. I thought it would take 120 for it but took 110. I believe Xplodee mentioned taking time to get his at the price he wanted. Parnelli negotiated his from 120k down to low 90k. West coasta’s white TR was long advertised in San Diego for over 140k, over a year later he scooped it for around 85k. My car had a full major in September 16, advertised at 130k; 8 months later I got it for 100k. Bottom line is; u either wait or build a relationship with the sales and eventually u will get ur price EXCEPT Merlin autogroup ; their TR are still offered at 200lk Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You are the one who called me a “delusional hater”, called me “bitter”, and then later said I’m “angry” and suggested I have a tone problem—all for fact checking you with facts and facts alone. So what did I call you? Also, you keep calling me the ‘new member/participant/joiner’ as a tactical attempt to discredit me, despite the fact that I’ve been on the forum for ~ 1.5 years. If you have an iron clad argument to make, you wouldn’t need to resort to this type of behavior. But you don’t. You claim repeatedly to be an expert on statistics, yet repeatedly make the elementary mistake of confusing raw data inputs with processed data outputs. And there are many other obvious mistakes—but those on this forum who actually know stats have already detected them in your methodological descriptions. Finally, there’s no need for me to buy the black TR, as I already own a TR. Do you own one?
Those are not the sales prices. The real prices are MUCH higher. See attached. If you missed these easy ones, it seriously calls into question the accuracy of Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login all of the prices listed throughout your tracking spreadsheet; moreover, since many if not most sales aren’t publicly disclosed, one cannot with seriousness pretend to know the total market. Take the private and public securities markets as an example. Tech stocks have enjoyed sky high private valuations until going public recently where most have been cut down considerably. Your spreadsheet tracks only the public TR sales and not the private ones. If it did, the data set could look very different, as with tech stocks.
His exact words were “120-25 for the very rare ones.” With ease, I produced 4 recent sales—not 2—that show that sales prices WAY above his representative range, and so perhaps aren’t so very rare after all. He makes the effective “representative” claims, not me.
U still haven’t told us how much u paid for urs. What’s wrong with calling u a new member to This thread, are u not? There is no seniority ; we all Started at some point. I apologize to you if you felt one was trying to discredit you. Sadly that’s what I do for a living statistic and analytics for a big tech company. I have however not Claimed to be an expert. Doesn’t take a genius, after all, to collate prices. I take private sales into consideration too. If you share with us yours will gladly add it to the living document. I have quite a few on there as well. The overall numbers do not support the 200k cars. I am not sure why you refuse to see that. They just don’t. Most seem to agree. I don’t make up those sales number. I already shared plenty with u but I can share the exhaustive list and gladly add whatever sales u can provide us, as long as one Can Verify it, it goes in. Those cars you shared are the exact same I shared. U can include the fees if u want. Those time capsules with roughly 1000miles are sadly not a representation of the market. If u had read my posts, as u like to do so on BAT, u would see and know I have helped sell 3 TRs on this forum, and also sold mine on here and own A FF. Not many people seem to know stats then Your enthusiasm is welcome. Aside those few trs which you keep bringing up would love to have more of those numbers; after all if sales are so strong then an adjustment should be then looming and in The making. I will let you then be in your alternate reality where the average TR sold is over 200k. End of the story. Please provide us sales going forward so u don’t get all defensive. U can put me on ignore that way u will never see another price Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
U produced 3? And again my opinion is mine not urs that’s fine but with ease I give u below the most popular auction results of the year. I am adding BAT, no private party...U make whatever u want of them. I am just a data processor Just put this in a spreadsheet (remove the 512trs) and, don’t even do a statistical model, just group by mile, color, year... u Will see more often than none 100k is the number for a car with 20k miles or so. 120 usually get the 12-15k miles car...but there are exceptions Parnelli (for instance) Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login bought and sold his for 93k at 11k miles if I remember... Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Not really. Appraised value was $152,000 Cdn (approx. $114,000 USD). The dealer just didn't want to hang onto the car for a long time waiting for the sale. I just lucked out on the timing - a few beers and the internet on a Sunday night. LOL
The key with these cars is that they are going on to be 23 - 36 years old!! So, you have to really want one - there is no Power Steering, no ABS, no Traction Control, no ....., but for the visceral feeling of being in full control of the car and no "drive-by-wire", I can't recommend a better GT. By the way, I've spent over 3 hours behind the wheel and felt great afterward - no backache, sore knees, etc. But as I said above, you have to really want one. Earlier, someone said this is not a first or second car, it is probably the third to add to your garage. It is the lack of modern tech and the high production numbers that keep prices down. If only 2000 had been made total (a la the Countach), engine out service or whatever, prices would be in the $300,000 - 400,000 range.
Absolutely - and as I was telling xplodee i want to Start a registry for the US to try and see how many are actually still running. I drove the tr several times in SF and it worked great even in city traffic. Loved mine and can’t wait to get a 512tr to complement my FF. Nothing but the looks and pleasure of a TR. A bargain to be had, I see them going up in A Few years... just not now What does your Ferrari Testarossa sound like ? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I agree. Would seem he bought his car last year. I’m sure it’s a stunning flying mirror from what I read and that’s all what should matter to him. The prices in the market are what they are. We all know they will fluctuate...this year aside the Scottsdale auction weeks not many auctions have been impressive but maybe 10 years down the line those will be good deals. Hagerty, which I would agree isn’t perfect, has the following valuation ... a bit too low but those are also down. They do consider private sales. Thé Ferrari market letter also has them down a bit...it’s alla relative point in time though. In 5 years it could and should be different. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Why would I share the price I paid with you? If you think collating prices equals statistics, you are only further proving my point. You may factor in miscellaneous available private sales, but there are hundreds of dealers and individuals out there buying and selling who are not reporting to you. Your data set is incomplete, at best. Again, you’re trying to make broad market calls; ***I have not and am not***. Continuing to repeat that is a red herring. You loudly cheer the victories and explain away the defeats. In behavioral economics, it’s called ‘confirmation bias.’ I’m simply holding you accountable for the defeats using facts and facts alone. Omitting commissions—which oftentimes account for a significant 5-10% extra of the purchase price—indicates that your data set is toast, as is the accuracy of all that flows from it. I mentioned confirmation bias, didn’t I? Rifledriver asked you to put him on ignore but you refused to. That contentious exchange with you was his last on the forum. It’s a shame because he was a tremendous asset in terms of real TR knowledge, not to mention entertainment value too.
I don't think Sebastien can help himself. It may be time for tribal council. I am also a @Rifledriver fan. I have really missed Brian's insight on a number of threads. One today in particular as a matter of fact. Thanks for keeping it real. This crap is getting out of hand. 100 sales over a year's time, selectively gleaned from the Internet is a completely worthless data set, IMAO. The way the corrupt data set is being used to beat down the market is reprehensible. It is as if someone lost money on a TR and is justifying paying to much by proving the market is collapsing. These cars are nice drivers at best. Only a few top cars made the corrupt data set. TRs are NOT a rare commodity with the miles and conditions stated for the most part. All the good cars move through private treaty sales anyway. YMMV
Again- u are further digging urself into a hole. see the comparison u served us on 6 cars earlier on this year and u also said u had a statistical model coming up. Anyways that being said it’s pretty obvious u have a nice car which u have bought in 2018. U paid what u paid for it and that’s ur problem. This thread is to discuss prices and u have provided 3 or 4. Good for u, keep providing more. That’s what this thread is about, so far only those prices which do not stack up against everything being discussed here. U have ignored and deflected all previous screenshots so pretty safe to say u only want to see things ur way and that’s also fine. As far as riffle driver, not sure why is not on here; u can call him at his shop or message him. I’m sure he will tell u. Image Unavailable, Please Login Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It’s a testarossa price trends; so if u know and think of sales then please share them. Generic statement without actual sales proof and vins are not proving much. Most cars do tend to take a long time To sell and far from at selling price. If u think the Ron Tonkin car at 110k+5comission and luggage is not a good car it’s ur choice. At the end of the day it’s what it sold for. Again it’s a price trend, I share prices whatever u think of them and I can tell u that : Xplodee member on the thread paid 97k for his I paid 100k for mine Parnelli 93k and sold 93k West coasta 85k Steven shee’ car sold for 85k too Gary told us hi price as well And many others, their choices, have shared what they paid for it and it corroborates the data set of 100 sales over 2 years. Those are not sale glaned on the Internet or whatever u believe. Again it’s a price trends ; u want to Discuss prices; u have tangible prices to Share.Awesome... if not then it’s another thread. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Hey Nat, Plug this into your database. Sold last week. 512M, 1235 miles, sold for $190,000 with commission. The good, it's the last 512M ever by serial number. The bad, it has a very neglected dash (leather) that probably needs to be replaced. https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/25819/lot/17/ ....This last-of-the-line example of the legendary Italian supercar was built for the United States market and currently displays a total of 1,235 miles on the odometer. Finished in red with black interior, the car is presented in generally good condition, although the dashboard is in need of refurbishment. The car comes complete with it its full tool kit and pouch.....
WoW 190k! Never loved the shape of it but a good price. Leather shrinkage can be pricey. I know on my FF the guy paid 25k to fix shrinkage ! On the TR I have seen bills of at least 5k. Harder to predict 512tr and M sales prices for sure. The sample is so small ! I’ll add it Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I've never looked at things from an investment stand point but have always liked to buy low miles. That M is the LAST M ever made. That makes it the last of the TR, 512's, M's ever made. And it only has 1235 miles! How many times have we seen M's asking over $300,000? If I were in the market for a TR, 512, or M, and that was in the budget I would have grabbed it. Dealt with the dash in due time. Plus I like the red carpet. Even in the current market, I think someone can clean that up (Service and Dash) and flip it in Scottsdale or Monterey, if the market remains where it is, for a nice profit. It's the last one!!!
