Took My Scud and 599 GTO for a Back to Back drive | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Took My Scud and 599 GTO for a Back to Back drive

Discussion in '360/430' started by LARRYH, Oct 1, 2019.

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  1. LARRYH

    LARRYH F1 Veteran
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    Thanks Terry . I knew the SCUD and GTO both had the super fast 2 with shift times of 60ms. However I did not realize that the 360 , 360CS, and 430 all had the 150ms shift time I would have thought Ferrari would have upgraded the CS to
    something more like the 599 100ms ..
    I truly think the SCUD is one of the most under valued of the track focused four . The Scud was the fastest shifting F1 V8 that Ferrari ever made.......I also like the large amount of carbon fiber with the US carbon package included on many of the 08s and ALL of the 09s...
     
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  2. mwstewart

    mwstewart F1 Rookie

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    F430 2008 is 120ms
     
  3. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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  4. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    If 360 and cs are the same why do 360 owners upgrade their tcu with cs ones?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  5. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Smoother shifting, less clutch wear, more positive launches, ability to adjust PIS for early 360s, etc. It is definitely not all about how fast she shifts
     
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  6. mwstewart

    mwstewart F1 Rookie

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    The factory documentation. The CFC301 / Sofast III change bought this about. It was an engine management and TCU and electronics system change in line with the Scuderia.
     
  7. italiafan

    italiafan F1 World Champ
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    It is kinda nuts to consider a 150-250ms shift as being “slow.”
    It must be that the subjective “pause” in forward momentum and power uptake is actually longer and more pronounced, especially if accelerating hard.
    My 16M shifts, when at proper conditions for 60ms, are just laugh out loud fun!
    Maybe there is an occasional software glitch with my 458 Spider because there are definitely times the shift is anything but instantaneous, more like the 250 ms shift...
     
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  8. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Mark- Sounds good to me, thanks, I just had not seen it. I need to make it into a document so I do not have to remember it every time somebody asks. That also lines up with the changes made to the 612 in late 2007, also 125 ms.

    F355: 250 ms
    360: 150 ms
    575M: 220 ms
    Challenge Stradale: 150 ms
    612: 180 ms
    575M HGTC: 180 ms
    F430: 150 ms
    F430 Sofast III (2008): 125 ms
    612 HGTS/HGTC: ~160 ms
    599: 100 ms
    612: (All updated when HGT2 introduced in 2007) 125 ms
    612 Sessanta/OTO: 100 ms
    Scuderia/16M: 60 ms
    599 HGTE: ~80-85 ms
    599 GTO: 60 ms
     
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  9. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    360 and 430 are not the same shift speed - its a noticeable difference....ive always understood CS and 430 were the same and 360 was 50 slower, fwiw.
     
  10. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Those are the numbers Ferrari quotes. Like Mark did, find something in writing, but if they improved it to 125 ms in 2008, likely it was 150 ms before that. Took a lot of digging by several folks in a lot of official sources to come up with good numbers.

    The F430 shifts are likely smoother and crisper than the 360's, and that is why they feel faster.

    Oh yeah, I missed the Superamerica, which has the same F1A system as the early 612s, so 180 ms
     
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  11. LARRYH

    LARRYH F1 Veteran
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    thing is the difference between 250ms and 60ms is .19seconds so in a 0-100 run it get in to 3rd gear I would think so 2x.19 is .38 seconds seems like a lot of difference to me.... unless I did my math wrong
     
  12. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 World Champ
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    I've mentioned before, shifting a Scud in Race mode vs Sport mode, you can already tell a big difference. In Race mode, it grabs it like it means it. You feel it. Forget the speed as they're all fast. It's the grab that makes Scud Race mode badass.
     
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  13. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Whoops, 120 ms for late F430s, not 125. Here is the whole list:

    F355: 250 ms

    360: 150 ms

    575M: 220 ms

    Challenge Stradale: 150 ms

    612: 180 ms

    575M HGTC: 180 ms

    Superamerica: 180 ms

    F430: 150 ms

    F430 Sofast III (2008): 120 ms

    612 HGTS/HGTC: ~160 ms

    599: 100 ms

    612: (All updated when HGT2 introduced in 2007) 125 ms

    612 Sessanta/OTO: 100 ms

    Scuderia/16M: 60 ms

    599 HGTE: ~80-85 ms

    599 GTO: 60 ms
     
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  14. mwstewart

    mwstewart F1 Rookie

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    It does. I love it. The difference between Sport and Race mode is an aggressive ignition cut. The 2008 F430 and Scuderia both have this feature in Race.

    I will dig out the factory documentation and post it up.
     
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  15. stan996turbo

    stan996turbo Formula Junior
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    Is this accurate, I copied it from an earlier post by a member?

    ‘The 2008 F430 has a completely different transmission control units and major changes to the transmission. The earlier F430 uses the Sofast2 gearbox system, and the 2008 uses the Sofast 3 gearbox system. The Sofast 3 system incorporates a pressure sensor on the clutch hydraulic system for better clutch operation, as well as a longitudinal accelleration sensor.
    If you drive an early and a late F430 back to back, you can feel a distinct different in clutch operation and take off from a stop as well as faster shift speeds. The Scuderia uses the Sofast 5 gearbox system.
     
  16. Skidkid

    Skidkid F1 Veteran
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    Come on. You quoted the slowest (leisurely driving) shift speed of the 360 against the fastest that a Scud can make (full throttle, high RPM). Why don't you just say "when I put a 3" block behind the accelerator of your car my car is SO MUCH faster" same thing. If you want to compare either use CS = Scud or 360 = 430 so you are comparing apples to apples AND use the best shift time for both. The difference isn't that big but the smoothness and takeup are pretty different. And while we are at it things like a Veyron are at 100 ms and even BMWs SMG is around 80-250 (depending on version) so these times are on the top end of the fastest around.

    What makes me laugh are the people that think they can shift manually in the same amount of time. The fastest around are in the 250 ballpark (best case and not consistently) with the typical being closer to 500 ms.
     
  17. LARRYH

    LARRYH F1 Veteran
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    Thats not what I was saying I was responding to a previous post talking about the difference between 250ms and the 60ms ... the car on the list that shifts at 250 was not a CS ..and these are claimed fastest shift times for each car on Terrys list .....
    I think the CS is a great car and never claimed any car is faster just that I thought the cars subject of this thread shift fast as H***.
    As far as shifting faster manually no way I can but just the same I do like some cars
    With manual transmissions
     
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  18. LARRYH

    LARRYH F1 Veteran
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    I don't know all that but I believe the Scud uses the super fast 2 system that was only used on the scud and 599GTO
     
  19. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Larry, John- You are both correct. Even those of us with drag racing backgrounds in near stock Corvettes, etc., can come nowhere near F1 shift times, even without lifting the throttle. My relatively slow 220 ms 575M F1 slams the shifts home in Sport near redline, and the newer Ferraris are even more brutal.

    Yup, only the Scud/16M and the GTO got Superfast 2. Next up for V8s and V12s were DCTs and the California and 458 were already out there while the GTO was in production.
     
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  20. freshmeat

    freshmeat F1 Veteran

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    Ferrari should've named it Supergood 2; it's not too fast, not too slow, just spot on in the sweet spot for a good kick.
     
  21. stan996turbo

    stan996turbo Formula Junior
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    The difference between automated manual and a traditional manual is not the speed but with the connection to the driver in the traditional design. When you are moving the lever and managing the clutch and throttle you have a consistent rhythm that’s predictable. The slower automated systems
    seem to be challenging to find the same fluency of operation.
     
  22. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Stan- Anybody who is not smoother with an F1 system than someone with 3 pedals does not know what they are doing. You have to learn to drive smoothly with F1 just like you have to learn to do anything else. Most folks never take the time or just do a kneejerk badmouthing of the system because they tried it once and had no idea how to use F1. Works fine once you learn how to use it, like most things. 11 years of practice with an F1 daily driver helps, too.
     
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  23. stan996turbo

    stan996turbo Formula Junior
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    I used a 2010 M5 with a sequential box as a daily for 3 years and I also have a 08 430 so I have plenty of experience with automated manuals. Every car I’ve driven with older automated systems struggle at times with around town stop and go which usually represents the majority of the time. The 355 F1 shifts in 250ms which is faster than a human but that system was terrible, the older systems are just borderline as an overall proposition. I understand that you need to defend your 575 f1 ownership but I think most find the older systems clunky. I’ll take my 550 with a 6 speed and my 675LTS with a DCT. At the time I bought my 430 the manual cars were hard to find so I went with the latest model(08)F1. I’ll look for a instructional video on how to pull a lever back to change gears maybe I’m doing it wrong;)
     
  24. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Stan- If they are clunky, it is the driver, not the F1 system. Yup, if you thought all there was to driving F1 was pulling back a lever, you were doing it wrong.
     
  25. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 World Champ
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    What’s the shift time of the Scud in sport mode? I bet it’s fast, but I can say it doesn’t feel all that special. 60 ms feels just right. Buy your Scud now :).
     

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