360 Replace variators or replace whole camshafts?

There is no easy answer to this one. You are smarter than me because I didn't take these choices into consideration until after the variators were taken of my cams (less than a year ago). I didn't want to go the used cam route because my paranoia didn't like the idea of putting cams into my engine from a car that I didn't know the history of. Sounds unreasonable even as I type that but I just couldn't get over it. Also I didn't go the new cam route because at the time it was cost prohibitive. I would say the best person you could talk to is Vince Hill at Black Horse motorwerks in the Kansas City area at 913-942-1222 because he is the one who did mine on top of the fact that mine and your car were probably on the line at the same time and built in a very similar way. If I remember correctly he had to get a tool built just for this job, but I maybe incorrect on that. You might want to try to get in contact with FNA just to see if you can get any support for the process. I highly doubt it, but its worth a try.

 

I've thought about this and the variator stuck on the shaft sounds like it ends up bending the camshaft or ruining an otherwise good camshaft trying to get the stupid thing off.

I had an issue last summer when I brought my 36o in for a new clutch. The tech overtightened the clutch pump line to the (Hill engineering btw) bleed block SO MUCH that the fitting partly rounded when I tried to get it off.
I took out the bleed block and use a dremel to cut a groove at 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock on top of and below the clutch line fitting. I then used a chisel to hit the bleed block along the groove. This cracked the bleed block and gave the fitting some clearance that I could unscrew it.

I'm wondering if I have to replace the variators if this might not be a bad way to get the old variator off. To cut a groove at the 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock position where it screws on the camshaft, then use a chisel to spread the variator apart and unscrew it from the camshaft.

 

You can get them off without damage but not using the book method. They have to be machined off or drilled like a rifle bore. Once the variator is off the rest of the bolt comes right out (no longer in tension).


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I've done five 360 engine rebuilds in the last 12 months and have changed the variators on each occasion (so 10 total). Each time they came off with the minimum of fuss. I suggest you try to remove them before worrying about anything else.

 

Yes, getting them off the second time is easier. On the early cars they over tightened them and you often can't get them off with the cams in the car without damaging the cam. Once they have been replace and properly torqued, it is pretty straight forward. It is also easier on later cars. BUT, if you are taking everything apart it isn't hard to pull the cams if needed.

 

It also seems (from a sample size of one) that they were very liberal with their use of loctite on the variators/cam in the early cars. This loctite seemed to be the major problem when removing the variators on my car.

 

There have been alot of weird things with my car. I have some parts that are not supposed to be on my car given my assembly number (oil cooler and lines that were supposed to only be on cars up to assembly number 33358, mine is after that). I have the 355 horn, I have a different immobilizer than the one listed. There is no history of my car being delivered with a tool kit and the one I find the most interesting is that every interior panel I have pulled off has the number 116039 written on a piece of tape (not my vin number). As far as my documentation, which goes back to october of 1999, states that none of these things have been changed so I am assuming they come from the factory. Anyway my point is that these early cars have alot of weird things about them, at the same time, it could just be mine.

 

i think you can keep the cams, I did replace the variations however,

 

One of mine broke, the other my local expert didn't seem to have the toughest of times replacing the second. Right tools, experience and you should be fine. I've got 400 miles on it so far, so good!

 

Any update on this situation?

 

Bingo. But actually you remove them the same way you remove a barrel from a Remington 700. It easy and certainly not worth the expense of replacing a cam. Thats just silly.
Original variators were installed too tight and doing it the factory way resulted in wrecking a lot of cams.
Replacement variators usually come off easily.

 

Matt- No need for insults. Just the facts.

 

Sounds good, the only other thing you might want to think about is the updated left hand tensioner bracket and bolts. Here is a blurb from the WSM

and

Also 3k seems alittle low, is he going to do a proper dial gauge timing as well?

 

I’m no pro, and not vet done variators (mine not due yet).

Not sure what spending the extra money will get you. If you have the cams out and new variators just pass them off to a competent machinist.

From what I’ve read if they don’t come off “relatively” easily, have him grind or turn some of the metal at the base of the variator at the attachment where the variator contacts the cam and this should free the variator from the cam.

I would reserve the used cams only for catastrophe because.

1- you will loose your factory marks for your engine timing. Used cams will have their own old marks.

2- in the wsm IIRC variators are recommended for replacement at 60k miles. You lose 15k of those (that is if the miles listed are accurate). May not be important.

3- possibly clearances as you mentioned

4- with used engine parts you never know what problems you are buying.

Not sure why you have such agita over degreeing. Is there a reason the original factory marks on your original cams with new variators can’t just be used for reassembly? Why would they change?

Perhaps I’m over simplifying it but it’s static marks on mechanical parts. As long as you are at TDC on proper stroke (crank), and the marks on the ends of all 4 cams align you should be timed as the car left the factory.

Then I would follow the procedure in the WSM and double check by degreeing. You always have the factory scribed marks to fall back on if you have your original cams.


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I would never put used internal engine parts into another engine, those parts have worn together in their original engine, not yours. There could be all sorts of bad things coming from mismatched wear patterns and weird clearances because of it. You may have no problems at all when you go to do it, I would wait to see what happens before stressing over it or shelling out extra cash.

 

There are only two issues that you (Redneck) seem to be worried about.

1. Replacement of the variator in or out of the car.
2. Degreeing the cams again

Frankly, both are very doable everyday with the right skills and tools. What's the hold up?

 

Mitchell has this right. Just pull the cams and get on with it. As I recall, FBB wrote a great thread on degreeing cams.