Best V8 ever for now and on. The Pista

Pista is collectible because? F8 has the same engine and the same or better...you can look it up. Speciale is the last NA V8...does that make it cool? A personal perspective - yes it does.
Pista is a great car and yes it does have more horsepower, it’s turbo and the latest model so it should have more horsepower. Same for the tech, it should and does have the current tech. Not challenging the positive aspects of the F8/Pista.


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I think the 458 is better than the 488, but I like the 488 better, so I'm okay with it devaluing faster than the 458.

 

Says the guy that didn’t get a Pista allocation maybe?

I actually OWNED a Speciale (have you? ) for 5 years and I’ve driven a Pista 2 days on the track with Ferrari Corsa Pilota while waiting on mine and I’m here to tell you from MY FIRST HAND DRIVING EXPERIENCE there is no comparison between the cars. The Pista is quicker, more planted, more “alive” and simply more fun. The Speciale sounds a tad bit better but has no torque nuts up above 7,000 rpm. All noise, no grunt.

The F8 does NOT have the same engine, different mapping, different lightweight internals, different sound. Not to mention the back end of the F8 is an abortion.

 

Getting too personal and aggressive so I am backing out...but one last comment. I own a Speciale now and I didn’t and still don’t want a Pista allocation and the F8 has the same horsepower regardless and the backend of the F8 is documented as being beautiful but I have only seen pictures.


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I find this comment unfair. The Speciale, and all N/A Ferraris for that matter, achieve peak power near the redline. The Speciale has some 150 HP to gain from 7,000 to 9,000 RPM. That said, it is self evident that a Pista or an F8 is a lot more powerful across the whole rev range.

 

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So the 488 has better low end torque and peaks just above 3000.
the 458 about 6000.

458 is going to age and hold value better because it's naturally aspirated though, but the 488 is very nice and balanced overall.

 

I am a big fan of the 458 but I dont know this will necessarily be true. These forums represent a very small percentage of buyers and I would bet most people are less critical about NA vs. turbo and would rather have the newest, fastest thing out there. I do believe that the 458 pricing will flatten soon and perhaps the gap between the 458 and 488 will not be as much as it is today.

 

Jordan or Lebron? I say Jordan.

 

I don't think you can use the UK right now as I understand it you are experiencing a lot of Brexit jitters.

 

It’s been said before but I’ll say it again...

Speed and lap times are futile yardsticks to measure enjoyment. If that really mattered we should all go and buy Nismo GTR’s and throw $100k at the engine and walk all over Pista’s. A quick scan of Fiorano lap times and it’s easy to see what Ferrari is doing. They make new cars faster. End of story. Pista owners better be ready to trade up in two years if outright pace is what’s doing it for you.

I don’t care that a newer model is 2.0 secs quicker around a track. I’m about 1,000 hours of track driving away even getting close to those pro lap times. I’ll be lucky if my car spends 10hrs of its entire life on a track.

How does it feel looking at it parked in my garage, how does it sound when I start it and hold the leather steering wheel, how does it feel to own when I can’t even see it, what stage of life was I at when I purchased it, how special does it make me feel - these are the measures for me.

I’ve had my Speciale 4 years and covered just 7000km (had a baby girl 2.5 years ago and my time with her is taking priority). I’ve driven a 488 but not a Pista.

I’m a N/A man and I know that and that’s ok. I’ve also purchased an E90 manual V8 M3 - simply because it’s a manual N/A V8.

You could offer me a brand new Pista swap in my spec and I’d still prefer to keep the Speciale. The shape is a classic to my eye. Personally I don’t like the turbo charged torque surge that feels like god has reached down and given you a nudge toward the next corner. I like the visceral feeling of knowing my engine is working for it, not the compressor bolted on the side of it that can be chipped to 100 more hp by ‘a guy’.

8/10ths is possibly all I’ll get to in my car (on road or track) and I’m ok with that. That means there’s always going to be 2/10ths left for me to explore someday.

The 458 Speciale is my fit and other cars will be other people’s fit.

The argument is fun however

Enjoy in your fit in good health my amigos around the world!

Ps: an 812 GTS might also be my fit

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After 13 years on FChat I can tell you these “discussions” are 100% pointless.
Person with previous car says “he loves it more,” guy with new car says “that’s because you can’t afford the newer car.” Previous car guy responds with “you’re justifying your purchase”.....blah blaaaah blaaaaaah.
“It’s about the experience.” “It’s about speed.”
Graphs appear, track times get thrown around...and then the “high priest” bellows from the bully pulpit...”I have BOTH, you don’t, and I KNOW the new one is better!!!” “Begone you plebeians!”
Minions chime in on both sides.
Lather—rinse—repeat.
Endless.
(Guy with vintage Ferrari reads these endless bickering posts, sips his scotch, eyebrow raised, bemused grin on his face...enjoying the spectacle...”children, nothing after the Daytona matters.”)

 

doesn't make as much difference as you'd think, some cars are still expensive - F12TDF £800-1,000,000 in rhd here, 599 gto @ £500-700,000

people just adore the 458 spec and are willing to spend the same amount or within £20k of a pista for them.

as I say, the standard 458 and 488 are the same price on used market.

I also echo the opinions of the poster a couple of posts above this, the 458 spec for me is as fast and as capable for both the conditions on british roads and my ability on track as i'll ever need whilst looking and sounding beautiful.

 

By curiosity, just checked the prices at UK Ferrari dealers - the cheapest 458 is GBP 120K, while the cheapest 488 GTB is at GBP 155K (well, 154.830). And there are some 458 spider below this price.
2015 458 are about the same price as the 2015 488, but that was also the case when they were new (the price increase from 458 to 488 was initially very light).
I do not know much more the UK market, but in France the Pista sell for more than EUR 100K more than the Speciale (which is too much for me, btw); the Speciale sell for about the same price as new F8 (typically less, but more for low mileage Speciale) - I ordered a F8 and did not buy a Speciale.

 

So true

 

I thought you got it delivered already and you are writing your opinion after extended drive and compare that to a speciale which I assume you also owned.

Didn't mean to put you on the spot, because I am looking for some comments from people who own both.

 

The F8 has the same engine 100% , yes different mapping / electronics and the addition of the GPF. Same output so they found a few more Hp in the F8 to overcome the GPF.

 

Well said


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The interesting, and somewhat unfortunate thing about the Ferrari world is that it doesn't appear to lend itself to backdates.

One of the nice things about the Porsche world is that when one has had enough of having the latest and slightly fastest iteration of the same thing, they can at a reasonable cost, do a tribute car with as much or as little rawness as they want. For example I am currently building a 73 RSR backdate based on a 79SC with a 3.8, cup goodies like lsd and other stuff, G50, and more. It will end top being 2300ish lb and 375ish hp at the wheels. No nannies, manual steering, super raw all the way around. Same can be done on a 964 chassis if someone wants a slightly more civilized experience.

Obviously a lot more donor cars available, but it's just not something that seems to be done with Ferraris, which again is unfortunate because when one gets past the heritage and matching numbers thing, it is a great way to have the original raw experience without having to worry about period correctness and having a slow 60s/70s car in a stunningly beautiful shell. You can have the beauty, the rawness, and the crapyourpants fastness, all wrapped in a tuna can that wants to kill you ... aka heaven.

 

last year at SEMA I saw a restored 308 that was simply awesome. I would love to do a build like this someday.

 

I don't see doing this to a modern Ferrari as a popular thing to do. What you propose would be deemed an outright fake on a modern Ferrari.

 

I mean it's fine if one wants to look at it that way, although my sense of a fake is something pretending to be something that it is not.
When one does backdates and outlaws they are using classic designs as inspirations for their creations, they're not trying duplicate a historical car nor do they go around saying that their cars are original.
But sure, if one wants call Singers fakes they can have at it, I just don't see them that way.

Personally I could imagine someone starting with a 308 to make a 288 GTO backdate, with a modern V8 like that of a Scud, manual tranny, race suspension and components, custom interior, etc. I don't know enough about Ferraris to know if that's even feasible or if it financially realistic, but you get the idea. Something completely unique built to a person's personal preferences with lightness and power in it, that's Ferrari in every single of its component parts and not pretending to be something it isn't. It's just interesting to contemplate and I'm sure that there a numerous valid reasons that this sort of thing isn't done much if at all. My apologies if the suggestion has triggered seizures in any purists.

 

I have no issue with it because its about what pleases you as the owner. Ferrari owners in sum are purists I would say. Someone a few years ago did a base production car to an LE update and not a pretty scene whether attempting to pass it off as original or not. Porsche and Ferrari different in a lot of ways and that's one. Seems more acceptable in vintage cars as they are all rare in that era but many are always mindful of something like a swapped drive train or chassis. Maybe closest to what you describe on a modern Ferrari and be fine would be a manual conversion using OEM components.

 

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a28309552/ferrari-f355-modificata-jeff-segal/

Similar thinking

 

Auto correct got me. I mean to say restomod. https://images.app.goo.gl/HLcfcM4pykgBWuM9A