Shift shaft seal (again)

Polished the shaft with 1000. Came out great just like you said Asbsotone.

 

I personally have never seen shift shaft seals like that, my car is a 75 GT4. maybe someone can chime in, as all the shaft seals I know of are O rings. I used X rings on mine

 

I was going to use this sealant on the gaskets. I know it works great on air cooled 911s.
Anything else the Ferrari owners recommend? Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

These are the same style of seal I removed from my 81 GTSi before fitting X rings. With regards to sealer for gaskets, my personal preference is loctite 515 less messy than the permatex and works very well

 

Is there a better boring to use then the OEM one I ordered. Hate to do this again
In a year or 2.

 

What are these X rings you guys are talking about.

 

They are an aftermarket seal with two sealing surfaces per seal as opposed to one sealing point with the originals . I purchased mine from unobtanium supply Image Unavailable, Please Login


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Jagerocks,

I bet my two rings were original.

They didnt look nearly as bad as yours though.

Oh, and I used a tooth-pick to get the old ones out. NO Metal-to-Metal* Contact EVER, IF I can help it. Especially on sealing surfaces.

After you clean the seal seat-grooves, Just oil-up the new ones and stick um in there. You can Bend Um, as they are 'Rubbery,' Just DON'T Twist Um.


* - Meaning SHARP TOOL to CAR Part.

 

Is there only a few detents in the casting that is holding the seal in place? Could the shift shaft pull out the seal unintentionally?

 

I have never heard of it happening, BUT MY 'Sample-Size' is just this forum.

 

Mark's point about scratching the ID of the soft aluminium casing is a good one. If you use a sharp dental pick or wire get it into the rubber, not the metal (or just use a blunt pick/wire and scoop under.)

 

I went and bought the seals you recommended from Unobtainium. double lip edge. you really think that will be better than OEM.

 

Ive just done this mod on my 328. Here's a few observations
MY car is a standard UK spec 328 with ABS.
Seals used were X rings. 19.99mm x 5.33mm. Viton. Shore hardness 75.Purchased from the UK.
1. On a 328, the engine sump pan must be removed to change the seals. To do this the dipstick dip tube and oil temp sender should be removed. The rear seal is accessed from the engine sump.
2. No need to raise/lower engine. Tie wrap the shaft linkage to the exhaust manifold to get it out the way and the shaft will slide in/out. Probably not the case if you've got some sort of big bore manifold.
3.The seals are slightly more difficult than standard seals to insert into their seats , but do fit OK. Don't get tempted into poking them in with a screwdriver. They will go in by squeezing them in with your fingers.
4. At this point they are compressed and the ID is now around 17.6mm. The 328 shaft taper is around 18.5 mm, so the shaft wont go through the seals without some form of mandrel. Folk talk about using a tapered socket bit to act as a mandrel, but all mine had grooves/ writing on them, which could damage the seal. So I made a mandrel from a piece of 20mm steel bar, which I tapered down at one end to 17.5 mm (see pic).
5. Using plenty of PTFE grease I slid the mandrel through the front seal. To slide it in the mandrel must be square to the seal as the passageway through to the engine is not much more than 20mm. With the Mandrel square it slid in relatively easily (by pushing with fingers - no hammering or squeezing with pipe wrenches). I positioned the mandrel into the seal so it was flush with the seal face. i.e. the metal seal holding tab gave me a step to line the shaft up with.
6. Again, with plenty of PTFE grease, I slid the shaft through the seal. It went in easily and the mandrel popped out the other side.
7. Getting the shaft through the engine/gearbox seal is a repeat of the above. This is more simple as the shaft is already lined up.
Other points
Use good quality gearbox/engine pan joints and install them dry.
Deglaze the shaft as mentioned previously in this thread.
When reinstalling the dipstick tube make sure the union nut is tight. I took mine out and annealed the Copper washer. With the dipstick tube out It is easy to get out the union nut with a standard 24mm socket and flexi head socket wrench.

Once in, the shaft can be moved up/down the seals by hand (Just). There is no difference in shifting stiffness compared to the old seals.
I'm sure these seals will last for much longer than the cup seals that Ferrari supplied.

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Would anyone recommend putting something on..in the seal when installing...loctight...sealant....aviation sealant..?

 

never heard of doing that

 

I changed my seals earlier this year and was unable to push the shift rod through the X-ring by hand. I did not have a tapered rod nor any way to make one. So what I resorted to was to grab the shift rod where it is unfinished with vice grips. With twisting and pushing (considerable effort involved) the shift rod passed through the seals. The gearshift was stiff at first but now with about 800 miles of use the gearshift is back to normal with no leakage. In my case the original seal between the engine oil sump and gearbox failed.

 

Jason, don't put any sealant in as it is more likely to cause problems than help. Some cured sealant could get between the seal and the shaft (or seal and hole ID) and allow a small gap for oil.

 

Ok. Thanks just put it in dry. With a little.oil lobe.

 

also check the shaft and make sure there are no burrs that can damage the seal, I actually polished the tip of the shaft to pass through easily. don't forget to wet the shaft with some oil

 

Yep. Polished it like you said in last talk and just a little oil lube.

 

Let you know how it works out. Wont get to it till probably monday or Tuesday.

 

I think it helps to also stretch the seals on something bigger (perhaps 25mm) and put them in the fridge for a while so they stay a bit deformed during shaft insertion.

 

I inserted the seals in their sesting grooves and greased-up the respective shift shaft section and stuck it in.

What is this stuff above?

What am I missin?

 

On 328's, not sure about other models, the shaft is not tapered enough to fit into the ID of the compressed x ring seal. So if you don't expand the seal there is a chance of pinching/ripping it when you put the shaft through it.

 

Didn't know that .