Pista Topping Leader Boards once again...

Motorsport Magazine tested the 720s on R’s at Magny Cours with a full team of McLaren mechanics, they tested the Pista with the same driver. The Ferrari was a customer car with plates and was 0.5 quicker on the club track and 2 seconds quicker on the full F1 track. Ferrari did the business with the Pista and actually said Michelin compromised on the tyre to make it more road friendly, so there’s still more pace available in the car.

 

Love the Pista. Ferrari stepped it up big time.

 

Big McLaren fan here; had four of 'em, two of which I specced. I now look at those cars, and what they are selling for, and I wonder if we are flirting with the concept of the disposable super car. Buy it, drive it, bail out of it with a big financial punch in the nose. Pity the guy who owns it outside of warranty...which may explain the catastrophic value loss. I'm not saying that I didn't also enjoy a big financial punch in the nose when I traded my 488 a few months ago. It just seems so extreme with McLaren now that it might possibly be diminishing the brand. Maybe they know their customers better than we do...the mega wealthy might not worry about the idea of a disposable super car. I'm just not in that league.

As I reflect on it all after the fact, my conclusion is this: I'd lots rather own a 4 year old Speciale right now than a two year old 675LT. (I owned both, BTW).

 

Stop whining as the Mac depreciation thing is so boring. Have you seen what a 812, Lusso, 488 or F12 loss looks like. Brutal to say the least.

You've had Macs & F-Cars so have I...all exotics that are not LE's are going to tank. Doesn't matter brand. But you know that.

Buyer beware ANY brand. And it's only going to get worse...cheers.

 

It’s also ********. The nosebleed hits lots of armchair guys are always banging on about are for cars with huge stickers due to stuff like full carbon, pearl paint, etc. Everyone knows those big dollar options instantly loose a ton of value on any of these cars and it’s certainly not limited to any one brand. Complaining only about Mclarens is simply cherrypicking data to malign a great car that offers serious competition in this segment. Nothing more.

The Pista is a superb machine. Slamming it’s competition isn’t necessary. In fact, I think it cheapens the accolades the car earns on its own.

 

I will say the massive depreciation has kept me out of owning a Mclaren. But used they are an incredibly interesting proposal. The 675LT is on another level from a 458 Speciale and some can be had for close to $200k! The 720S could be a $250k car for a nice spec in 3 months. It’s hypercar performance. The entire super car market is softening big time. Buy new at your own risk. Nothing is safe.

 

Don’t do it! The R have a special compound that lasts 2 or 3 full on laps. On the road you don’t needs such grip and after 500km that special layer is gone and you will have normal PSC2. If you’re not chasing lap times don’t do it. Twice the price of the normal 2 for nothing.

 

Of course it is, and beautiful!

 

Same old song here by the same posters. Mac is ugly and depreciates, Ferrari is best because it's Ferrari. Waaaaaaah

 

Depreciation or lack of it is the biggest nonsense, fake news on car forums. Hardly anyone tells the truth or gives the entire picture... It just seems to be a way to suck people in who don't know how any of this works with exotic cars (buying brand new, buying one to get one, other types of requirements, etc.). I'd probably say that people who are connected on the business side of making money directly/indirectly from Ferrari's are the one's who keep this discussion alive.

It just seemed like yesterday that you got a 488 and you already sold it! I have no idea how much you bought and sold it for, your holding period and net proceeds but you introduced this topic.

I remember discussing on this forum back in 2017 and the same guys who are saying that depreciation, etc. is non existent and a major reason to get into Ferrari have now seen the reality and sing a very different tune these days.

I like all cars. I have been on track with two very, very competent pista owners and it looks great and performs great. I do question how hard it was to get because a lot of people on these forums who are getting one don't seem to have much buying history at all. There are two ferrari dealers in my area. One of them is the biggest one in the country. They have probably sold over 1,500 brand new cars in the last ten years. Many of those owners would have bought at least six to eight cars in the last 10 years but they seem to have lost interest in getting Pista. (They know how much they have lost in all these car purchases and have now exited). Is it any coincidence that many people with very little new car buying history with their dealer are getting one?

 

Agree all Exotic resale values are destined to become worse from here on, but in relativity of actual depreciation it still does depend upon the brand and model.

On today's scale the "depreciation pecking order" has Ferrari clearly taking the baton from Maclaren in-turn dispatching Maclaren into depreciation oblivion/hell (with perhaps exception of the Senna and P1) . So there is truth with FordGTDriver saying "disposable super-cars" is becoming a reality especially for those used buyers still prepared to take them on outside of warranty.

 

The people who suffer the largest depreciation losses are the ones that constantly trade out of cars. The guy who sold my 12C originally lost $100K in 1 year. I lost $80K after 4.5 more years. Had he just kept his car a few more years, he'd have gotten vastly more value out of it. The best value in exotic cars are the ones that you want to keep 4-5 years.

Like most exotics though, if you are buying/selling exotics that are $300K+ within a year, you're cruisin' for a bruisin'. This isn't really unique to McLaren. You should expect to lose a minimum of $50K in the first year on just about any modern exotic. They are just too expensive. When you have a $350K, it only takes 15% depreciation (which is quite reasonable even for a Toyota Camry) to lose $50K.

The biggest reason for the high dollar amount depreciation is sky high price increases in recent years. $350K, $400K, $600K... they are climbing in price far faster than inflation and so you can only expect depreciation to get worse and worse in dollar terms.

 

What is this place turning into? Rennlist? Buy a car expect to lose money. Why is that so hard to understand?

Enough with the value threads. The joy I have received from owning and driving my toys is well worth the depreciation to me.

 

Don't worry. I think it's because we all love talking about losing money along with which is the fastest possible way to losing a lot more than what we ever imagined or bargained for. I think talking about it serves as some kind of therapy or release as is making the comparison between who took the bigger beating as some means to feel a bit better about their own beating.

But for all of that, enjoyment is, and should always remain, first and foremost. However I would totally agree anyone buying a Ferrari thinking they are entering some kind of financial safe haven is kidding themselves big time. The sales talk at the time shortly after I bought my 488 was that it was destined to see less depreciation than a Mac 720. Now what a total fantasy that turned out to be as from what I've since seen they are both line ball in level of beatings. The 570 OTOH is a different story with it being basically worth scrap value but then when you look at a Lusso or similar then they too are also in very bad shape. So again it's a case of buy and enjoy and leave the crying for a later date.

 

570, Lusso, f12, Porsche Turbo- it is what it is. If you don’t want to lose money- don’t buy a new car. Any car.

Now back one topic- can we talk about how .00002 seconds will be meaningless if we just change the tires....

 

I think we all know how meaningless the time difference is which is most likely why the topic drifted off onto depreciation which seems to be the go to topic for everything these days once the main subject has been acknowledged and/or found as not even worth talking about.

And agree - don't buy any car if losing money can't be dealt with.

 

Probably gain more speed dropping a couple of pant sizes!

 

Or you could always spec out a Weissach package on your next Porsche. Lol

 

Wouldn't buy a 2 without it though! It'd be much like buying a Pista w/o the exterior carbon.
Out of 44 2's guess how many non WP? You could count them on one hand.


Image Unavailable, Please Login


Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

So using modern day exotic logic, the non-WP is the one to have due to it being rarer. The last of the non-WP gt3 rs!

 

Maybe, but then the stigma attached to the non wp may get the better of most buyers prepared to pay the price unless the price is very right. BTW I was talking 2's not 3's here...unless you meant a 3rs non WP which seemed to be the more popular choice anyway. Either way both are good, but as a car at this price point, my point was most expect/want certain things such as WP if they plan to hold. Bit like a Pista in the same sense where one has no carbon or stripes and most used buyers want the car they saw in the magazine - as in the red one in Ferrari release spec and so forth.

 

I know quite a few people who wanted one and couldn't get an allocation. And Ferrari is changing policies to allow more first time buyers to get a car. It was not an easy ticket to get a Pista.

 

I know at least 3 owners here in Dallas that have owned multiple Ferraris including at least 3 new ones that tried and failed to get a Pista allocation.

 

Different countries, different dealers, and confusion on these forums because people mix up all these different things.

I'll just give you an example of things:

2 ferrari dealers in my area. I bought a brand new F12 from one of them. The other dealer had a TDF in 2016 brand new (I think it was the first one coming to the dealer). There was a problem with the original buyer. My friend (top customer who is getting a TDF) calls me and tells me about it and tells me to call his sales guy (sales guy had floated to him to recommend a customer). I call his sales guy and he tells me that an FF and Cali T is a required purchase (lease for at least six months and hold TDF for 18 months). He also tells me that I'm fifth in line for this deal and four others have to say no.

One week later; I get a text from another friend (higher up the food chain at the dealer compared to my other friend and also getting a TDF). He tells me about this same TDF and to call the general manager. I tell him that I already talked to the other sales guy. He says to immediately call the general manager.

Now; all of a sudden I'm #1because I have a recommendation from one of their top customers. (note; I have never bought a ferrari (used or new from this dealer).

Why was I given this deal over many of their other customers. I was considered a "conquest" customer and they wanted me in their fold. I didn't take the deal in case anyone was wondering.

Now comes the Pista. The dealer that I bought exactly one brand new car (F12) calls me for the presentation. Only criteria for me was to take a Lusso and I get their earliest Pista delivery. Now, this was a deal that anyone could have gotten unlike the TDF deal which was very specific to certain people.

No doubt that other dealers may have done things differently but it sure does seem that people with long buying histories weren't offered one or declined and got out of this entire system. At a high level, you just have to think of how many new cars that any particular dealer has sold in the last ten years and how many of those people bought multiple cars but still people with very little buying histories were able to get one or just had to play ball and buy one car that they didn't want.

 

I usually agree with most of your posts but im not sure what point you are trying to make. As stated previously, Ferrari has mandated that 30% of their allocations go to new customers. Maybe thats why some people are getting the Pista and others are not. I can only tell you that I know numerous people that have tried to get a Pista allocation and were unable to.