2010 Cali buying advice | Page 2 | FerrariChat

2010 Cali buying advice

Discussion in 'California/Portofino/Roma' started by MKTViper, Sep 25, 2019.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie

    Jan 18, 2013
    4,425
    Full Name:
    Michael
    Many used car ads have patently wrong information. While that is potentially false advertising, assuming if you want to take the hassle and expenses to sue, buyers should know the cars they are buying, ask questions, do PPIs,...etc.

    Used car salesmen are not derided as clueless or dishonest for no good reason. Heck, even many journalists are idiots and liars. ;)
     
  2. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 22, 2002
    18,755
    this one is easy - buy a 430 or a 458.
    sorry but its the truth.
     
    technom3, BOKE and Fireman1291 like this.
  3. Fireman1291

    Fireman1291 Formula Junior

    Oct 30, 2017
    628
    Tampa, FL
    Full Name:
    Adam
    He's right you know.
     
    BOKE likes this.
  4. AD211

    AD211 Formula 3
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Aug 19, 2017
    1,040
    South Carolina
    Full Name:
    Andy
    Or just stay off Fchat until you need a quick answer on an issue, avoid hanging out with other owners and don’t test drive other models. You’ll then continue to love the model you have and not experience upgrade envy. Dang. Sounds like marriage. 20 years tomorrow with the wife. 2 with the Cali. Neither are going anywhere and both are still beautiful and fun!


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
    tomc and Fireman1291 like this.
  5. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie

    Jan 18, 2013
    4,425
    Full Name:
    Michael
    Actually, I would not take an F430 or 458 even if you offered to trade... and add cash. Not kidding.

    True, I don't need any money but those cars are not practical to drive and I think my Cali30 looks way better. My modified car is now also as fast as a GT3 RS so there's no performance advantage either and my car is even faster than the F430 (without any mods)... and I also have back seats and a full convertible option.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
    Fireman1291 likes this.
  6. arizonaitalian

    arizonaitalian F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Oct 29, 2010
    19,894
    Wyoming
    Sensible...just comes with higher risk. Luck plays a huge role in these things though. A top problem or brake problem (its not the pads you should be worried about, its the rotors) or DCT problem are all tens of thousands to repair. The Ferrari extended warranty can help on the DCT (I think), but I believe excludes the top and brakes. Electronics glitches can be the other expensive repair. So, luck will decide (even on historically maintained, inspected cars). But, driving a top-down v8 normally aspirated ferrari is an experience that merits taking some risk.
     
  7. Piper

    Piper Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 6, 2010
    24,850
    Northern Virginia
    Full Name:
    Bob
    I was thinking about this just today. Crosses my mind occasionally. My son and I would both love to have a 458. But honestly it really has to be a second car. My Cali is the better driver by far. The number 1 and number 2 annoyances with the 458 and in no particular order are blind spots and the lack a proper rear speakers or room for a sub in a 458. A close third, I would much rather have a little storage right behind me in the form of a minimalist back seat then have to use the boot all the time. Unfortunately the fact that form follows function and vice versa, a 2 + 2 can never be as beautiful in my opinion as a rear mid. I would also have really preferred Ferrari we're getting the horsepower numbers some other way than turbos, I want my mechanical music back. A 458 looks prettier and sounds better but the California is by far the better daily driver. And I do Drive mine almost daily if only 5 or 10 miles.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  8. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie

    Jan 18, 2013
    4,425
    Full Name:
    Michael
    Good points.

    I agree with you about the blind spots. Regarding the speakers I do not have an opinion as I have neither first hand experience or preference for better audio infotainment.

    Supercars are about leading edge technology, speed and power. As such I agree the mid-rear-engine layouts create a more sporty look and best handling but that's because those cars are biased towards supercar performance and handling. OTOH, some supercars are biased towards supercar grand-touring experience, being able to achieve and sustain high speeds while taking you along in relative comfort on very long trips, with all your stuff. I think this is why you and I prefer to drive Calis when we're not pursuing utmost handling performance in a road car. The Cali also preceded the 458 in its pioneering implementation of the DCT and the direct-injection engine in Ferraris, features that made them some of the best performing supercars of their times. They both exhibit technology way beyond that of the F430.

    So my point is that these are both supercars in their time... specifically designed for different roles.

    Drivers who select the Cali will benefit from GT-oriented design features which are absent from the 458 whereas those who select the 458 will benefit from the more extreme supercar performance and handling capabilities.

    However, the catch is that the Cali has more capacity to be modified to perform like the 458 but the 458 has no capacity to perform more like the Cali. This is why my modified Cali30 HS is so much better a Ferrari supercar choice for me. I retain all of the GT benefits of the Cali while achieving most of what the 458 provides. While it is true the 458 looks great from 3/4 to full rear angles, I don't really find it great looking from other angles and the boy-racer look does not suit a GT so what's there to lust after if what you want is a GT? My Cali30 HS does look much better than the F430 or 458 to me.

    The Cali's bad rap is partly due to videos featuring women drivers (I actually think that's great) and because its suspension sits too high, to accommodate owners who have to daily negotiate nasty urban roads. But if the Cali is your fun car you can easily fix that. This is the silly thing with some people. They think Ferraris cannot be modified or don't know how to. Calis are not Enzos or F40s. They are not collectible so you drive them to enjoy, not as investments that some people believe must be as close to OE as possible. If you do that you only cripple your enjoyment of the Cali, unless you actually prefer to drive very generic, unfocused cars.

    Finally, I also have different take on the front-mid-engine 2+2 format of the Cali. The rear seats achieves some very desirable goals:

    #1 working backseats - I once took 3 people on a 4 hour drive over country and suburban roads. One passenger was my 6' 2", 250 lb best friend, his petite 5' 4" 30-year-old daughter and her 6' 2" 180lb husband. They loved it, with roof-down of course.
    #2 practical easy-to-reach storage
    #3 pass-through capacity for skis
    #4 capacity for 2-3 golf bags
    #5 much better placement of the driver closer to rotational centre along the wheelbase, much better weight bias over the rear drive-axle for excellent traction
    #6 eliminate choppy rides so common with shorter cars and roadsters, much more comfortable on longer drives and still identical wheelbase to my 675LT, which is no slouch
    #7 better protection for occupants from rear-end collisions
    #8 qualifies as a 4-occupant passenger vehicle, potentially lowers insurance costs (like with the Porsche 911)
    #9 looks much better, avoids the "clown shoe" look some people deride against cars like the AMG GT
     
  9. Piper

    Piper Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 6, 2010
    24,850
    Northern Virginia
    Full Name:
    Bob
    Couple points, you'll never get a Cali to handle like a 458, and the reason Cali's had a bad rap from the beginning were manifold, Maserati design, first DCT, first front engine, first convertible hard top, first direct injection, I believe wet sump, factory cup holder. It was all too much for the community and enough for most to reject it as a Ferrari. I didn't, but I didn't get my first Ferrari until 2010 so it wasn't so polarizing for me.
     
  10. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie

    Jan 18, 2013
    4,425
    Full Name:
    Michael
    Well, I disagree... that's not exactly a couple of points according to my count ;)

    I agree a front-mid layout has a handicap in handling dynamics compared to a mid-rear layout but if weight distribution were the same (which it isn't with the stock Cali and 458), the main issues with handling have to do with the location of the driver and the location of the largest mass that makes up the weight of the car. Let me explain my opinions. I will mention 4.

    BRAKING
    Most of the braking effects actually comes from the front brakes in most cars (except the 911). That's why our front brakes are much bigger than the rear ones. What also makes the front brakes work better is weigh transfer (on to the brakes and tires). The front-mid layout of the Cali actually results in a shorter stopping distance compared to the 458. The standard front tires of the Cali are wider than those of the 458 (interesting isn't it?). Actually, aside from better load bearing, wider tires also turn the car faster.

    So the Cali brakes more effectively in a straight line.​

    BIAS TOWARDS OVERSTEER VS UNDERSTEER
    Continuing from my point about better straight line braking, having a big mass just behind your front axle unfortunately has some disadvantages. Since the biggest mass in a front-mid layout is just behind the front wheels, as the suspension reacts to weight transfer to the front outside corner of the car during cornering, that front tire is going to get much more weight and centrifugal forces than if the engine is instead behind your butt. That eventually results in greater understeer than with mid-rear layouts. A stiffer suspension helps to reduce this tendency but the loss of compliance will then result in loss of traction on a challenging course. That will slow your pace through the course.

    So a mid-rear layout is superior in this regard.​

    WEIGHT DISTRIBUTION AND TRACTION
    Ferrari likes rear weight bias for very good reasons - traction.

    When you have a mid-rear layout it's easier to put more weight over the rear drive wheels. The 458 has 42/58 (F/R) weight distribution while the Cali has 47/53 (F/R) weight distribution. So the 458 has an advantage directing power to its wheels. It also has wider standard rear tires (interesting isn't it?).

    The Cali's heavy roof mechanism probably "helps" in this regard, more so if you lower the roof. The Cali is also a significantly heavier car and that partly accounts for why the Cali exhibits excellent traction. You would think a heavy car like the Cali would be slow but it isn't. I think the factory had to restrain itself to avoid making the Cali "too fast". You can use this to your advantage.​

    HELPING YOU GO FASTER AROUND CORNERS
    For steering purposes it is better to have the driver seated ahead of the centre of rotation of the vehicle's mass.

    For one thing, the driver will be closer to the upcoming corners and be able to judge and react faster than if they were seated at the back of the car. To carve the best line, you want to be able to see the corners as clearly and as early as you can, to make steering adjustments as early as possible.

    The location of the largest mass of the car also affects how the driver senses the car's turning moment which helps him to judge and adjust his actions during a cornering maneuver. It's an abstract idea but you will understand it immediately comparing driving a proper car vs driving the same car simulated by a computer game played on a basic computer simulator. The computer game is horrible because you cannot feel the car react to steering input and road feedback. All you can do is look at the simulated scene on the screen and that isn't effective.

    When you change the car's steering, the biggest mass will still want to push the car straight especially if you want to go really fast and stay on the gas right through a corner. What makes you go faster is how hard you can stay on the gas while changing directions. Otherwise all races would be drag races.

    Experienced drivers will tell you they use their butt dyno to gauge what the car is doing. The secret is that your butt dyno works best when it is in front of the mass that determines which direction the car will take... make the turn or fly off the road. In a mid-rear engine layout, the biggest mass is behind you so your butt dyno feels movement in the back while you see the steering challenges in front. If the mass that is communicating with your butt is in front, where the steering is, the effects of the moment of rotation will affect the steering before your butt feels it. It will be too late and you will crash. So most drivers soon learn to preempt this by going slower than they could have. A faster driver therefore has to be slightly mad to overcome this handicap. Right?​

    At any rate, a stock 458 does not make the most of its mid-rear design and you can improve the dynamics of a stock Cali's front-mid design... and it's a lot of fun. ;)
     

Share This Page