The first 2 years of the SW20 MR2 has snap oversteer - journalists noted it was bad, and Toyota worked hard to eliminate it. IIRC, there were lawsuits as accidents happened as a result. That’s a 150-200hp car. I don’t think Chevy will make that mistake with a 495hp car.
unpredictable snap over-steer. google the issues MR2's had. people died. Typical: Image Unavailable, Please Login
OK, blast me if you want but IMO, these so-called "journalists" worry WAY TOO MUCH on "track performance" and not enough on what the car does on actual streets. Then you get the hot head know it all internet warriors chiming in You wanna track the car? No problem. Take it to an alignment shop set it up for oversteer. The rest of us (the 99.99999%) want to drive it on city streets at city street speeds in all weather and don't want to wrap it around a telephone pole in doing so to a car that goes 0-60 in 3 seconds.
exactly. get r compound tires, track alignment, track brake pads and fluid and you are good to go in z51 c8.
Good post. Also electronics if you dont turn them off can tame most any car. All cars are set/aligned to understeer from the factory, if a car crashes head first its driver error, if it crashes ass end first its a design fault. Alignment for track is anotehr settign etirely. Its alkso why so many "track" tests in magazines are useless. Anyone who tracks is likely to chage alignment and tires. if not more. Still if there is such a rapid switch from under to oversteer as the article implies that may indicate a relatively bendy car(all vetets to date), or some endemic dynamic fault(4c), which means even for track its always going to be edgy and more.
Isolated experince, isolated brakes. A luxury Gt that happens to have the engine in the middle so paper number for marketing. Of more concern is even when setup to seriously understeer it can snap oversteer. That may mean the vette is going to be snappy at the limit regardless of spec, but then bendy cars are, or cars with bendy suspension, somehtign even the 4c knows only too well. Sounds like a way better vette for vette customers, possibly some endemic shortcomings dynamicaly at the limit, Maclaren ferrari and porche wont need to loose sleep just yet. As mayor says its a comfy Gt car for the road, sadly it appears not more. But leta see what the other versions are like. meanwhile we know this version is only 20% stiffer than a c7 and 3600lbs, so the initial results are not too surprising.
im curious about how the brakes will feel. I have giulia sedan with brake by wire and media all complained about the feel. I never would've even known it was electronic if I didn't read about it 1st. I think it feels perfectly normal. and that's on street and track. did 4 track days with it and other than little bit of fade that's to be expected, theyre pretty good. I bet vettes are better still. im sure ccb will be offered on next versions too
Brake by wire, and eps are ways to save $$$ for manufactuers, not dynamic improvements, but yes with the right tunign they need not be bad at all.. My view on the vette is that the C5-C7 were ver1.-3.0 of the same car, and they got better with time. If the platform of the C8 is good then Ver2.0 and 3.0 can become great cars. While there have been flashes of brilliance(c6 z06) we have not seen a vette that can be regarded as a truly great sportscar since the C2. Doesent mean vettes are not desireable for what they are and many a great car does not sell. Still do we think a base C8 is as appealing as a base 911? I gues if you want GT comfort maybe, if youre looking for more maybe not. lets see , its early days yet, but based on the media acounts so far, were not seeing a knockout punch, unless the target was the c7.
cant really compare c8 to 911. its half the cost. besides 992 grew up in size and comfort so who knows how sporty it will still be. compare c8 to cayman with its awful 4 cyl motor. and its still 20% more expensive to c8.
Here we go. https://www.motortrend.com/cars/chevrolet/corvette/2020/2020-chevrolet-corvette-c8-vs-2020-porsche-911-comparison-test-review/
I bet the C8 handles better than a Boxer. However for all the Boxer's faults it is still more desirable! It isn't always about how well a car drives...
With 2 1 3 pictures this time, thanks!!! Very interesting write up, and the new 992 has to work hard to justify it's 34k price difference anywhere but the race track. Out in the real world the C8 has it all over the 992 if you travel light.
that's best article ive seen on c8. think it pretty much says it all. I cannot imagine a cayman that stickers the same as vette even being in conversation. this is final nail in cayman/boxsters coffin. it will have to go all electric to have a chance. maybe they'll keep gt4 versions going as an ice.
Stock boxers are very snappy, but its a 1970 design with soem glaring flaws, like the mtor being over the transmission putting the crankshaft mass up high. With modern rubber the limits are very high and its not snappy but still heavy in the rear. Last weekend at a club drive was followed on some backroads by a speciale and a pista. Their coment afterwards was wow you push that old car hard. It was maybe 8.10ths, how fast can you realisticaly go on a back road? But then I was also working hard for my speed and also maybe having more fun than they were. A boxer may be fun, but on track it would be a slug compared to anything modern. This summer I got stuck in stop and go traffic in the boxer, two cars in front was a vette, I wished then I was in the vette, Ac blasting tunes on the stereo, transmision taking care of itself. Horses for courses. Still as the 911 shows some modern cars can split the difference well. So far(based on the article) what we have here is another vette. True its a better vette in terms of build and stats, and yes this time with the engine in the middle. But putting the engine in the middle appears not to have confered any major cosmic significance in terms of dynamics or the all important feedback. If the article is to be believed, youre still not at one with the car, and thats where the euro competition is so different regardless of paper numbers. perhaps this is all intetional, and will work well for the classic vette buyer, but putting the engine in the middle implied that maybe there would be a lot more to it than that.. Also in the 21st century a Me car need not be snappy with all the systems turned off. MY exige V6 is oversteery but its easily controllable and not snappy, I belive the 488 is the same in this regard, even the rear engined porche as per the article was not snappy..
To me,. in numerous places that article says I wouldnt want a vette, at least not this isolated Gt vette. But then not evryone has to love it. The Me hype just potentialy promised so much. I dont think porche is going to be losing sales, theyre just such different machines and a differtent customer base. Still we can hope for the z06 and Gs.
Great comments! I would note that jaded automotive journalists who get to drive everything without spending out of their own pocket might have a different perception of the C8 than a current Corvette owner. For the current owner the mid-engine design is a whole new experience with some now unique driving characteristics compared to where they came from drive wise.
Its interesting. On one hand they said that the demographic was aging and they wanted to attract younger buyers who buy elsewhere. On the other hand besides putting the the engine in the middle it appears to have been designed almost exclusively to appeal to that aging demographic. Its more quiet and isolated, it lacks steering feel, its heavier still, its designed to be comfy and take two sets of clubs to the golf club. So far it looks too much like a duffers golf club gt car. But then maybe the platform has bandwith. So far though that does not appear to be evident.
you probably wont like this c8 but come on now, consider this version of the c8 to be same as the 911 targa. no one buys that for its track prowess or steering feel at the limit. it looks good, allows sunshine and wind in the face, etc. thats exactly what this c8 is. wait for the zo6 or at least grandsport if you want to compare it to a gt3. no way would you be happy with a 992 carrera either
Is the age demo for a Vette really much different than a 911 customer? I don't think so. Its a little different but its not a lot. Porsche's have always been understated. Vettes have always been a bit more brash, which the C8 is. I think its more of a matter of taste and what is "cool". I think Vette's now costing $80K actually help the car. Its no longer just "a cheap sports car". Its not really that cheap anymore and will be one of the most expensive vehicles in Chevy's line up.
In the used market many of us in our 30's and 40's are embracing the C6 and C7 on the used market. I would buy a used Alfa 4C over a new C8, but not much else. My C6 really opened my eyes on what a good car can be. I came from the 70's Z28s and Firebirds - then got into the 70-80s Ferrari, Porsche and Lamborghini when they were more affordable. The $20k ish I have in my C6 wont buy a 70s f body now and I know those cars pale in comparison. In 2025 we will be clamoring for nicely optioned used C8s I am excited to see what the new C8 Z06 does. Georgia super speeder laws have teeth so i dont know how folks manage these 500+++ Hp cars on public roads. I lack the talent to push my c6 z51.
What are Georgia super speeder laws? Theres that old adage about better to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow. Some really fast cars are still engaging driven slow because of their reactivity and feedback. Super capable cars that are bland untill really pushed are a question mark, because where are you really going to push. I guess the split is then luxobarge Gt untill 9/10ths then animal, and thats a formula that sells because most dont push and really want a cool looking comfy Gt, and the mag test specs are good. yes in 2025 these cars may be really affordable toa disposable extent, The question is with avialable mods will they really dance on track. In that context a porche or lotus exige work out the box, and I had hoped the vette would be the same. If motor trend which is a USA mag reliant on Gm advertsing is criticizing(no matter how gently) brake pedal feel and dynamics, steering feel and snap oversteer, Ill ask why these things are not right. Less than superlative brake feel and steering feedback from a team that knows the measures and had a decade to get it right is dissapointing and not an inpspiring start. The 4c is flawed. The tub is great and I love the overall design. But with a stiff CF tub they put flexy struts on it which negates the point, so it needs to be hard riding to handle at all and strut flex makes it a real handful near the limit. To the extent a 4c is an at the limit type of car thats a serious flaw. The well resolved new light car is the alpine a110. In the Uk there are all types of significant suspension changes available to make the 4c better, but still you cant overcome architecture, it needed wishbones. I too await the z06 or a street C8r or Rs. But will it still be chronicaly heavy and not stiff enough. The weight we see already, and a quad cam motor is likely to be heavier because a SBC is generaly reagrded to be the lightest motor for the power, and 3650 lbs with a sbc is what we see now. Sure theres lots of places to loose some weight with CF etc, but how much? As to stiffness, I read that Gm says its 15-20% stiffer than a C7, which by modern standards is not fantastic and possibly why we see snap oversteer. Looking at the structucture, unlike pretty much all other high performance Me cars the sills are low for ease of entry and exit. Thats means the bulk of structure had to go down the centre tunnel, thats weight and loss of stiffness esp as there is no roof to tie it all together. Now its quite possible that with a fixed roof it can become much stiffer. So yes I can see that if they persue virtue with a fixation as they did with the C6 z06 we may have something, but they have a way to go. If the undearlaying platform is good, and there is the potential bakes in it can become great, but the intial reports are of not that, appealing as the car is for a demographic..