F40 Fuel Tank advice | Page 3 | FerrariChat

F40 Fuel Tank advice

Discussion in '288GTO/F40/F50/Enzo/LaFerrari' started by fbrs2, Oct 11, 2016.

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  1. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Mar 25, 2002
    36,210
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    Ross
    further question:
    the ATL tanks come with foam baffles.
    i asked the guys at DS to look in my tanks to inspect etc, and then i asked them about the baffles, and they said that there were no foam baffles in the oem tanks on my car at present. they did say that there appeared to be some rigid panels though.
    so what kind of baffles do the oem euro bladders have in them?
    anybody know?
     
  2. rmolke85

    rmolke85 Formula Junior

    Mar 11, 2013
    748
    I am almost positive the foam is in every tank setup. When our original Aero Sekurit bags were pulled the foam deteriorated in your hands. The foam is there to prevent excessive sloshing of the liquids from what I was told.
     
  3. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    yes i understand that is the purpose.
    just relaying that the visual showed no foam baffling in the oem's, but instead some rigid panels.
     
  4. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    i called my guy at Bob Houghton's to ask about this, and he said the OEM's have foam baffling too.
    as to why my tech here in Houston does not see it when he put the scope down there.....no explanation.
    i am going to say that i think the tech here is not putting the scope down far enough.

    btw, the price for OEM bladders is triple the ATL's !! crazy !
     
  5. rmolke85

    rmolke85 Formula Junior

    Mar 11, 2013
    748
    And when you see the construction of both, you will wonder why......
     
  6. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ
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    Really?

    Perhaps it's time for the car to be in the hands of a tech that actually specializes in F40s who knows what he's doing and can provide a definitive diagnosis and experienced recommendation.

    IMHO.
     
  7. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    lets just say that i will do what i like with my car.
     
  8. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    yes, i already do question it. those ATL tanks have pretty good references.
     
  9. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ
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    That's of course understood as the universal prerogative of any owner.

    However, you've decided to discuss your car's maintenance on a public forum requesting by asking questions covering the fuel tanks https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/f40-boost-settings-and-other-questions.607844/ and the nice thing is that in the way good forums work, you are getting some excellent experienced advice in bit that thread and this one.

    As someone else has suggested good experienced advice is always worth listening to.
     
    JL350 likes this.
  10. JAM1

    JAM1 F1 Veteran
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    Oct 22, 2004
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    Ross' question was looking for fuel tank information and/or options so he could consider potential solutions and decide which direction he wanted to go. He was clear that Classiche/stock wasn't the crucial factor as much as reliability and safety. Some of the responses posted here seem to imply Ross' tech doesn't know what he's doing or isn't equipped to provide an experienced recommendation and I don't think that's the case. Of course everyone thinks their shop or their tech is the best, and several like to advertise on their behalf, but tech recommendations isn't what's being asked for here. It isn't as-if he's taking the ****ing thing to PepBoys.
     
  11. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ
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    Nobody is suggesting the car is at PepBoys.

    Also, nobody is suggesting their shop is the best, it's simply being pointed out that there are a number of experienced F40 specialists available.

    As to the suggestion that perhaps the tech looking at his F40 isn't equipped to provide an experienced recommendation, you don't think that's the case, but anyone can be forgiven for thinking it is based on Ross' own remarks that his tech "does not see it when he put the scope down there.....no explanation. i am going to say that i think the tech here is not putting the scope down far enough".

    If I sent my F40 (or a client's) to any tech for any issue and the tech could not definitively diagnose the issue nor recommend remedy leaving me to guess what's going on, my F40 would soon thereafter be with someone who can, that's my valid & experienced opinion when it comes to F40s in particular, having personally owned 3 of them over 20 years and dealt with a few dozen more for clients.

    All responses in this and the other thread have been both constructive & helpful IMO.
     
  12. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    all that is fine.
    you all only know what i tell you about the situation. you also do not know the capabilities of the staff at DS, so no need to impugn them.
    my tech at DS has been filling my ear with all of the things that need to be seen to on my cars; i just dont feel the need to share it all verbatim.
    all i was trying to do was explore the options since it will end up being very costly, and as JAM said, since i dont care about classiche, i may have some different options that yield a better end result.
    and btw, the head guy at Bob Houghton's did not think the tanks or fuel system required immediate action either, but he is recommending i get them done on a precautionary basis. you might even agree that the BH guys know F40's....

    so far, from the posts on the various threads around this subject, my opinion is that simply replacing the existing OEM tanks with ATL tanks is probably the best way to go from a cost efficiency and safety standpoint. the fuel lines and joints will also be replaced at the same time. (and the belts, and the connectors, and and and ).
    i had hoped that swapping the OEM's out for rigid tanks like the USA version might be a better option, and more permanent. but what i am learning now is that it is the foam baffles that perish first, and those seem to exist regardless of tank type (which is why we got onto this particular tangent to begin with). and therefore i might as well go for the cheapest/easiest/correct option which seem to be ATL. apparently, even the usa rigid version would need to be replaced if the foam disintegrates.
     
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  13. rmolke85

    rmolke85 Formula Junior

    Mar 11, 2013
    748
    Your doing the right thing.

    While it’s opened up I would check all the timing points on the engine and pull the injectors to clean them out. Also take a look at the fuel pumps. The more you can clean up the fuel delivery systems the better IMO.
     
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  14. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ
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    Having the F40's entire fuel system be in optimum condition is key to safety & performance, the difference in the performance of the F40s I have driven is vast, with some cars barely operational, whilst other properly maintained cars perform like a road-rocket, I suppose it all depends on what you want.
     
  15. alps

    alps Rookie

    Nov 17, 2012
    32
    Zurich
    I have 5 year old Aero Sekur OE bags in my car. Blue foam is clearly visible a couple of inches below the filler neck but it is not clear how deep this goes or whether there are baffle plates below the foam. I guess I will have the same choice to make in a few years time about whether to go with OE or aftermarket.
     

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  16. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    yes, thats the objective.
    BH drove my car and declared it to be one of the faster non-LM's he had driven, and reckoned that the LM turbos and tubi had added 50+ bhp.
    the DS guys test drove it as well in the last few weeks and said the same, so as i said above, when the new tanks go in, all the rest of it will get done too.
     
    BOKE likes this.
  17. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

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    Just had an email from GTO offering aluminium replacement tanks etc
     
  18. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    yes so did i. going to buy them.
     
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  19. Collesano

    Collesano Karting

    Jan 14, 2017
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    England UK
    #69 Collesano, Oct 28, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2019
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    Aluminium fuel tanks should ideally be gas welded, welds should then look like the one in the photo.

    In the event of one being hit in an accident a TIG welded tend to split at the welds.
    Bag tanks were used because they are safer because they wouldn't split in case of an accident.

    Both types should always be foam filled of course.
     
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  20. rmolke85

    rmolke85 Formula Junior

    Mar 11, 2013
    748
    I’m adverse to aftermarket concepts on cars. Something as critical as Gas Tanks should have more of a description than what they are showing on their website. Nice concept but this seems like a hazardous alternative honestly

    Stick with the bags that are certified by ATL. They have technology that you can count on in an accident. These tanks seem home made....
     
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  21. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    Ross, in my experience as old as yours are once they are out the foam will be found as rust red powdered debris in the bottom.

    I would strongly suggest the ATL bags. If you call I will be specific why. I will be gone at the FCA national meet next week so call after.
     

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  22. EnzoItaly

    EnzoItaly Formula Junior

    Sep 29, 2016
    263
    I think DK Engineering also offers a permanent solution. Might be interesting to inform. They are THE F40 specialists.


    Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met FerrariChat
     
  23. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    For one thing as litigious as the world has become reengineering the fuel tanks carries a very heavy liability for everyone involved. A lawyer will make you prove it was not your fault to a jury who is predisposed to be sympathetic to the victim.
     
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  24. VetroresinaNL

    VetroresinaNL Formula 3
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    Oct 25, 2012
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