812 Market Dynamics | Page 19 | FerrariChat

812 Market Dynamics

Discussion in 'F12/812' started by 1881, May 19, 2019.

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  1. Hex

    Hex Karting

    May 1, 2009
    95
    Personally I don't care if Roma has 1000 cars. I'm not saying he's blowing hot air and he may be a great and knowledgeable Ferrari enthusiast, but his criticism seems pretty harsh. And, as a racer in the Challenge series, how can he compare track/race cars with a Ferrari V 12 GT? Ferrari V 12's are a historical element of the breed and this one is arguably the best and most capable yet.
     
  2. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 22, 2002
    18,760
    you dont need to care but you are the one who is being sensitive and defensive.
     
    BOKE likes this.
  3. roma1280

    roma1280 F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    May 2, 2010
    4,207
    Palm Beach, Roma
    And by the way what is your interest in Ferrari chat and Ferrari in general with your 28 anonymous posts. Why don’t you introduce yourself to the forum?
     
    BOKE likes this.
  4. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 22, 2002
    18,760
    10 yrs/28 fluffy messages and now he wants to go toe to toe.
     
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  5. Hex

    Hex Karting

    May 1, 2009
    95
    Fair points. Sorry about the comment on the thread contribution. That was kind of snarky and you have my apology. It's ironic that you reference the GT2 RS, which is THE track car. I just sold mine to buy an 812 for road use. I decided to keep my .2 3RS for the track. I find the 2RS to be less visceral vs the 3RS. Sure the 2RS is ballistic but it is numb and lacks soul compared to the 3RS.. I also think it lacks soul compared to the 812. I, like you with the 812, didn't feel any regrets when I sold the 2RS to buy my 812. I think the Pista was created to fight with Porsches and that that is the Ferrari to use on the track. I find the 812 to be very good at what it was created for which is a mix of spirited driving and covering large distances rapidly.
     
    ajr550 likes this.
  6. Hex

    Hex Karting

    May 1, 2009
    95
    ttforcedfed. You don't know anything about me man. Just because I have been out driving other cars like Porsches and Mclarens and haven't posted here since my last Ferrari doesn't mean I don't have a valid voice here. And, by the way, it seems like Roma can take care of himself and doesn't need your help. His responses have been classy. I also think the forum is a place for open debate. Even if it's an "F1 champ" going against a "rookie."
     
  7. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 22, 2002
    18,760
    stop being sensitive
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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  8. Hex

    Hex Karting

    May 1, 2009
    95
    #458 Hex, Nov 6, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2019
    My name is Chris and I joined the forum when I bought my first Ferrari years ago. As I said above, I have been playing with other cars for awhile now and have only come on here to see what's happening in the Ferrari world. I haven't posted for awhile because I haven't owned a Ferrari for a awhile but I am here again as an owner. I've had several Ferraris and I've loved Ferrari from the moment I saw my first Daytona driving down the Sunset strip in the late 60's. I've never had a V 12 until now and it feels like I'm in the great grandson of that Daytona. I'm not here to stir up trouble. I'm here because I love Ferrari and want to participate in a like minded community. Boy, I sure seem to have ruffled some feathers.
     
  9. Hex

    Hex Karting

    May 1, 2009
    95
    ttforcefed. Thanks for the suggestion man. I get that this is a family and I will try to earn my place.
     
  10. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 22, 2002
    18,760
    welcome back from the dark side!!!!!
    :)
     
    ajr550 likes this.
  11. Hex

    Hex Karting

    May 1, 2009
    95
    Thank you. It's good to be back.
     
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  12. Hex

    Hex Karting

    May 1, 2009
    95
    My 812 is in for PPF and I'll post pictures of her once I get her back.
     
    R J likes this.
  13. JTSE30

    JTSE30 F1 Rookie

    Oct 1, 2004
    3,242
    Austin TX
    As for the last V12, time will tell, but, know this, whatever does follow will have AEB and other nuisance nannies and hopefully each can be fully disabled otherwise, whatever follows will be difficult to desire.

    How many 812 owners is that you know are wanting to sell?

    What did you find uncomfortable regarding its GT abilities vis-a-vis the 575?

    On track I find the car to be easy even with ESC/CT OFF (my regular track car is a Viper ACR), braking from high speed the car is a little twitchy but that is due to the lack of full aero, otherwise it is very predictable and easy to handle. You can dial out understeer push with more aggressive alignment. And with fresh tires the car's grip is good (for street tires). I think the way the outboard mirrors are mounted is great, kudos to Ferrari, never found the largish A-pillar + mirror to interfere with the apex sightlines into left handers.

    The 458/488 are different balance and smaller overall, and, naturally any smaller car is going to be easier to toss about with comfort and both are lower power and that also helps with the comfort level.

    However, the 812 gear ratios are a bit annoying as they are really short so you are constantly changing until you get to a long straight and then once in 6th (~120+) it has a longer duration.

    Just the same, never really considered the 812 as a track car, but it is a great way to feel the car and its limits.
     
  14. Hex

    Hex Karting

    May 1, 2009
    95
    Will stickier rubber cause more under steer and what alignment changes will help with the push?
     
  15. JTSE30

    JTSE30 F1 Rookie

    Oct 1, 2004
    3,242
    Austin TX
    Stickier rubber (if any available, I have not looked for any, but, there probably is something that would fit even if you have to change the tire size by a little (first number 275 for instance use 285 or 295 as those would fit, etc)) will stop pushing that's for sure and negative camber at the front and maybe flat (0) toe, but, an alignment shop for performance driving (if you have one in your area) will be better able to help, and I am not certain if the 812's end links are adjustable but if so you can also do corner balancing.
     
  16. Hex

    Hex Karting

    May 1, 2009
    95
    Thanks.
     
  17. JTSE30

    JTSE30 F1 Rookie

    Oct 1, 2004
    3,242
    Austin TX
    A few other thoughts related to 812 track driving...

    It only has 3 point belts (of course) I have no idea where you would install full harnesses (i.e. the shoulder harness), the F12tdF has an option to install a bar between the b-pillars but I do not know if that is possible in the 812.

    The 812 sounds soooo much better to all onlookers than the V8 turbos (the sounds it makes on track are fantastic).

    Best to grab next gear about 8K rather than redline, car lurches too much if you wait too long under full acceleration, this is unlike the Speciale which loves to be at the redline for gear changes, this could be due to the car not being broken in.

    812 throttle steers very well when engine revs are high, lots more mass than the Speciale engine in that sense helps

    The 812 shift paddles are too short, kept grabbing 'air' need longer paddles like the F12tdf. That upgrade is available at the dealer, well worth it.
     
  18. Bundy

    Bundy Formula 3

    May 18, 2011
    2,374
    Arizona & Kentucky
    Full Name:
    Anir
    I think the 812 is a brilliant real-world GT car. After my Radical SR3 RSX engine blew at Road Atlanta, I took out the 812 on track. I came back to the pits after only 6 laps. With street tires, a street-oriented alignment, a heavy curb weight, and relatively soft suspension, it was honestly a bit of a pig under braking and in corners. Just not much fun, imho.

    Then again, that’s not what it was designed for. Unlike Roma, I’d be very sad to part with the 812. Love everything about that car for regular real world use.
     
  19. ajr550

    ajr550 Formula Junior

    Apr 6, 2014
    947
    UK and Caribbean
    Full Name:
    Andrew Roberts
    I agree.
    I am not a great driver but tracked mine at Silverstone and enjoyed it but it is obviously heavy and brake pedal started to go a bit long after 4 laps.
    Not in the same league on track as my Speciale was but I would not expect it to be.
    It is not designed as a track car but was fun to try it on track.
    To me the sound, the tradition of a front engined V12,the relative practicality that the layout allows and the fact you can use it as a GT or a sportscar (it will do both better than most in either class) make it a keeper (unless VS allocation pops up).
    I keep mine on the street and use it as much as I can.
     
    Bundy likes this.
  20. nads

    nads Formula Junior

    Jun 4, 2008
    875
    London, UK
    100% !
     
  21. gef3rd

    gef3rd Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jul 21, 2009
    375
    Palos Verdes Estates
    Full Name:
    George
    Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login

    Just picked this up. Incoming car that owner passed on. Will I lose money? Sure. Not sure why anybody cares. You're either a buyer, seller, owner or observer. Buyers will get a deal as prices are coming down. What car isn't depreciating? Sellers will lose money. Owners will enjoy their cars. Observers will comment about buyers/sellers/owners.

    Thanks to Tim Rogers and Ferrari Newport Beach!
     
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  22. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 4, 2014
    9,582
    Full Name:
    Maximus Decimus Meridius
    No way the 812 will ever be a sellers market. Once folks take discounts to sell them off they all follow. Doesn't matter in the least how many were made. Folks will wait even longer to snatch them up thinking the owners haven't 'lost' enough yet. Pretty pitiful.
     
  23. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 22, 2002
    18,760
    enjoy it as you shld! only thing ill point out is 10 yrs ago your average ferrari guy had 1 maybe 2 ferraris. today to play the game you have about 5 or more. 5 or more is a big ask when they depreciate a ton. think about how long the 575 and 599 stayed at msrp vs 812. only point being made is the game has changed and if you own 5 to 10 ferraris it's hard to justify an new model just because its new.
     
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  24. KenU

    KenU Formula Junior

    Oct 14, 2004
    543
    Planet Earth
    Full Name:
    Ken
    Makes two of us, Anir. (at least:D) This was not meant to be a track car, in my opinion.
     
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  25. roma1280

    roma1280 F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    May 2, 2010
    4,207
    Palm Beach, Roma
    I think that’s fair. I have a gt2rs and not only is it a monster it has soul.
     
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