430 - Red SLOW DOWN light-help me diagnose | FerrariChat

430 Red SLOW DOWN light-help me diagnose

Discussion in '360/430' started by SCKOMS, Nov 11, 2019.

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  1. SCKOMS

    SCKOMS F1 Rookie
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    Oct 21, 2011
    3,843
    Lake County, IL
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    Spiro
    My car is a 2006 F430 Spider. Tubi exhaust and AP headers. I drove it from Chicago to Naples this past weekend. Average speed was about 80 mph, with triple digits periodically.

    About 6 hours into the drive, the red SLOW DOWN light starts to flash. I am about 2 miles from the nearest exit, so I slow to around 60 mph, hoping I can make it to the exit. The warning then goes solid and I get a flashing CEL and power drops dramatically. I slow down further looking for an opportunity to pull over safely, when suddenly power abruptly returns and the car seems to run fine; no CEL. I continue at around 70 then inch up to 80 and am able to get into triple digits again with no issues.

    About 3 hours later, I get the warning light again, but this time slowing down somewhat makes it go away. Eventually, though it becomes persistent and I get a CEL after power is lost again. I exited, parked and read the codes basically indicating the right bank had shut down (misfires in cylinders 1-4), which was consistent with losing about half the power. I opened the rear hatch and let the car cool off for for about 30 minutes (the ambient temp is in the 50s). After I got going, the same situation occurred shortly afterward but without the right bank shutting down.

    Eventually, the right bank did shut off again and I pulled over, turned the car off momentarily and re-started and then I was able to go for an extended period of time, even inching up into triple digits without the warning returning. When it did return, I exited, let the car cool off again and resumed. The warning came back shortly thereafter. I pulled over, shut off and restarted and could go again for a decent amount of time.

    Researching the issue, this is an overheat in the catalytic (or perceived overheat), It seemed I could go longer and faster if I just shut off the car momentarily then if I let it cool off for a longer period of time.

    Based on that, I'm thinking this is most likely either the thermocouple or the control unit, not the cat itself.

    I won't be back in Naples for a few weeks, at which time I plan to take the car to Eric at F1 Imports, in the meantime, might as well speculate......thanks in advance!
     
  2. MD355

    MD355 Formula Junior

    Mar 8, 2004
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    Athens, Greece
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    MD
    Without knowing for sure, I would bet that it is the sensor that monitors catalytic converter temperature, the Vescovini box !! There are 2 in each car, one for each bank, and it is recommended to change the electronic box and the cable-sensor. Usually this fixes the problem !!
     
  3. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,828
    Isle of man- uk
    I am at a loss to understand why you ignored the red warning the first time, why would you get this serious warning and then going this quick afterwards. Get it into the dealer and hope you have not done some damage
     
  4. SCKOMS

    SCKOMS F1 Rookie
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    That was my thought as well.

     
  5. SCKOMS

    SCKOMS F1 Rookie
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    I know it wasn't the smartest thing to do, but the nearest dealer was probably several hours away and it just didn't seem that serious, the way the car was running. If it was the amber SLOW DOWN indicating an F1 problem, it would be a different story.
     
  6. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie

    there's no catalytic converter ECU on 430s, early 430 has the thermal couple. later 430s do without the thermal couple entirely.
    you need to see if there's any other codes except the obvious bank shut down and misfire
     
  7. SCKOMS

    SCKOMS F1 Rookie
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    The car is a 2006 with an in-service date of June 2005. I am in Chicago now and the car is in Naples, so I can't check to see if it has a thermocouple, but based on Aldous Voice's post, I believe it does, though it may not have a separate "ECU". There were no other codes that I could read; though I'm sure an SD will pull mnore data.

    "Note that the F430 system is slightly different to the 360 whereby the motronic takes the input from the thermocouple directly as opposed the signal being processed by a separate ECU on the 360. This makes things a little more robust."

     
  8. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
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    I understand they stopped fitting the thermocouples in 2007, be sure to get the engine compression tested in case it has damaged an exhaust valve. If they are all similar it will give you some re assurance. Are you running oem exhaust manifolds, wondering if the pre cat is coming loose
     
  9. SCKOMS

    SCKOMS F1 Rookie
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    Running AP headers, not OEM manifolds. Will obviously have everything checked out. Curious, can you explain why exhaust valves may be damaged?

     
  10. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    Oct 29, 2005
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    Its all speculation without some P-Codes to work with or physical access to the vehicle.

    If its got no header cats then they are obviously eliminated.

    Normally what happens is that the themocouples measure temperature of the cats and if they go above a pre-programmed limit the Slow down is illuminated. If the signal goes higher still it shuts down the bank to protect the cats from meltdown. You can easily see this as glowing bright red! Now if they are not silly hot this can be because the themocouples are indeed faulty and generating an inconsistent signal. If that's the case you'll get P-Codes which should allow this to be proved out or not. Intermittent signal, etc.

    The other cause ofcourse is overheating due to massive overfueling. This happens normally when one or more coil packs are failing on one bank or say spark plug. its very uncommon that it would effect both left and right banks at the same time unless the car was seriously in need of major service including new coils, plugs, primary o2 sensors, etc.It can also overfuel if the signal from the air flow meter is somehow inaccurate due to say an air leak in the headers letting in unmetered air... You mention it has aftermarket headers. Did they replace the gaskets when they fitted them?
     
  11. SCKOMS

    SCKOMS F1 Rookie
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    Very helpful explanation, thanks. Plugs were replaced 18 months ago. Two coils have been replaced within the last year due to CEL indicating misfire on a specific cylinder. The engine ran rough when that occurred, so it was pretty obvious. In this case, other than the right hand bank shutting down, the car ran smoothly. New gaskets were installed along with headers, which have been in place for around 4 years. I'm just glad it's the red warning, rather than the amber one!

     
  12. TheCook

    TheCook Formula Junior

    Oct 16, 2015
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    Sounds like overfueling, possibly caused by a faulty O2 sensor. It will be the primary sensor, before the main cat.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
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  13. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
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    If you had the oem manifolds still fitted, the pre cat in them has been known to break up and bits sucked back into the cylinder via the exh valve and then damage the valves and piston. Your after market manifolds dont have these so this will not happen. The fact that your problem is intermittent points more to an O2 sensor fault or bad connection on the sensor.
     
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  14. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    A bad earth can cause all these issues... most probably caused when fitting the manifolds ;) lol...
     
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  15. SCKOMS

    SCKOMS F1 Rookie
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    Headers have been in place for 4 years, though.
     
  16. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    Try to pull the codes so we can see if that helps us understand what's going on...
     
  17. SCKOMS

    SCKOMS F1 Rookie
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    The car is in Florida right now and I'm back in Chicago. I'll be there again in 3 weeks.
    Sent from my Galaxy
     
  18. SCKOMS

    SCKOMS F1 Rookie
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    Following up on this thread, it turned out to be a bad thermocouple. The tech switched to the other side and the error code followed so it was replaced.

    Sent from my Galaxy
     
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