I just heard an 812 w Kline exhaust (“quiet” one?) 110dB at 3k RPM If I had the dosh, I would’ve bought it on the spot. NA V12 is an animal unto itself. The people who want that will buy that. The people who don’t want that will buy something else. I am now firmly in the former group.
You may be right about the casual or aspirational Ferrari buyer but... ...Older may be better if free of GPF and nannies ...Why less practical? The 812 is a hatchback with huge cargo space ...Not faster? It’s not the destination but how you get there... ... Less pretty? Not to me. The 812 looks more special and less derivative. I actually like the Roma but I would have easily believed it was a new Jaguar, Aston, even a Tesla trying to look less electric.
.... Yet another car/ model.... Ferrari is on a roll but downhill The brand is becoming a commodity... Was there ever a point in history where a car brand introduced 5 distinct models in a year? I guess the same pattern will repeat next year... And the year after.... I do believe it will cannibalise the 812.... The design is certainly more palatable to the mainstream than the 812...I also notice the Monza headlights .... it seems the car is the same length not sure about width Interior is more modern and then there is the lower price point.... So basically for a used 812 I get a brand new Roma.... I do believe it will impact 812 ... The Portofino was distinctively below the 812... The Roma feels much more on par in terms of presence and statement (again seems they are the same size) I guess they will start arriving late next year? I am curious what will happen over the next few weeks around the 812 market...
Abstracting from the engine... Looking just at design.... One could easily think the Roma is the successor of the 812....I am curious to see it in person... But at least the length is the same... So the car should have a similar presence Also interior looks like next generation 812 feels dated... Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
the front nose is my favorite angle, as it reminds the angled nose of the 1958 Testarossa, but with a chrome or carbon fiber or black grill, not the body color grill. That's the only part on this car that (in my opinion) doesn't "belong" to any other car maker. But it's modern, clean and very nice shape ciao
Well I would love if people started to only get interested in V8s - that would only mean I can get a few used V12s for myself - ooops did I just write this
Point is this looks like/ has the presence of a V12.. Anybody vaguely familiar with Ferrari but not knowing, will think this is a new V12 model...812 looks like the old V12 model The identity / distinct characters of the model lines is getting seriously confused
Na, the distance between front wheel and (for example) driver door is way to short to fit a V12 on the Roma - not interested
Re the front fender shields missing on some of the cars shown yesterday at the Roma unveiling: Designer Flavio Manzoni had intense discussions convincing top management to go without shields. I think the shields are not necessary on this car. Lines are beautiful and should not be interrupted. Glad management listened to Manzoni. Marcel Massini
That only applies to an front mid engine set up.... They can still fit in V12... Aston put a V12 in the old vantage
I prefer no shields especially on this type of car.Hope Manzoni is as successful in persuading the Market.
Gee I didn't even know they had an 812 demo and I have been there several times in the last couple of months. I am not picky on options but that one has everything I care for, Daytona full electric seats, piping and a carbon fiber steering wheel. The thing is, my wife wants a Portofino and I just got her the AMG GT C Roadster a year ago which is a nice car. Now that she sees the Roma, she says she might like that instead. I am not really sure what to do. Please myself or please the wife............................
That nero daytona Portofino is super well spec'd and on the floor for sale today...that's an idea. If you wife wants a convertible (i.e. that AMG is a droptop), the Roma will not suffice...plus, the Roma's production for USA delivery is quite likely more than one year for those with an early allocation, could be if you ordered a Roma (and you may not have that ability for months) could be mid to late 2021 before it arrived...that's 2 years or maybe even more! So, maybe work a two-fer and trade the AMG in on that beautiful Portofino...and 812, and you're both happy!
Actually we like the silver one better, did you see it? The Nero Daytona is really nice but we both prefer silver. Definitely realize the Roma wouldn't be here for a while. My wife suggested I trade the 488 for the Portofino and we keep the AMG, she wants to drive both. I don't think I want to do that. I need to let her drive the 488, she still hasn't gotten to and I have had it for 18 months. One thing that occurred to me is that if I took one of the Portofinos untitled then I could bargain for an early allocation on the Roma. I would then trade the 488 for the Roma when it gets in. That would probably involve less depreciation than trading he 488 for the 812 and then taking more depreciation on the 812.
Not sure. Supposedly this year is the most new model intros and far less next year. I'm not so sure it will take away from the 812 where the calling card is V12 AND another 200 hp! Did the California take away from the 599? I doubt it really did. In the end time will tell.
Also, not sure what’s with the doomsters. A high number of models is a good thing for customers - keeps each individual model with lower production. The only issue that should worry customers long-term is the total quantity of Ferraris produced divided by the number of real customers who want to use and depreciate them. More than 1 is a problem, less than one is fine. Dividing total production by more models is a good thing. Porsche have gone to over 200,000 units. If they had done that with only the 911, bye-bye. But they did it with Cayennes, Macans, Panameras, Boxsters, Caymans etc. Leaving the market for 911s still very strong. Some Ferraris will do pretty well long-term but the post 2010 rise in used exotic values off the back of all that QE cheap money is the ‘not-normal’ bit. Before that (and actually even during that) big Ferrari V12s depreciated unless they were low volume cars. We’re just getting back to normal. 812 is no different to F12, both brilliant cars, both depreciated for a while. If you love them, they’re worth it. Still.
I agree. Excellent points. I believe Porsche is more like 350k units/ year and supposedly ⅔ of that is SUVs. So- is Porsche a SUV company? Yes. But are they also a company that makes brilliant sports cars? Yes. If they can walk and chew gum at the same time, so can Ferrari- and they will never let the Purosangue be ⅔ of their production volume.
It will https://carbuzz.com/news/ferrari-will-launch-15-new-models-by-2022-most-of-them-will-be-hybrids It didn't because California were clearly differentiated and targeting different markets However increasingly the model lines are blurring and the differences between them are diminishing
I just don't see the Roma as entering 812 territory. If you do then you just saved yourself a bunch of money! We will see about the new introductions next year.
It's a bit more complicated than than... It's something different to offer 10 models to 200-300k customers or to 9500 costumers Also it's a matter of time frame, Porsche did it over +10 years not 3 years... Plus everybody else is doing it at the same time now Do cars depreciate... Of course... Question how much over what period of time....20% over 6 months is steep.... Also 20% on 100k is very different to 20% on 400k unless you're a billionaire Same production level?.... That's a fairly tale... Yes platforming, rapid prototyping etc reduce R&D and production cost.... Plus there is the marketing cost for each new model... get that back and have a minimum production level... More models means more cars overall Also where's the lost exclusivity if you're just putting together Lego bricks.... And your 1.5 million icona model is pieced together with the same building blocks like the off the shelves cars part of the value proposition to a lot of Ferrari owners is price stability... If you lose that costumers have a reason less to buy your car Vs the competition And last but not least, economy is still fairly decent, but cracks are showing... It's dangerous to drive full speed into a storm
That's if you purely looks at the engine... Again abstract from the engine... Imagine the Roma had a V12 ... Would it compete with the 812.... My argument is that the Portofino or the 488 with a V12 would not compete Vs the 812.... However the Roma would.... It's not the same but there is overlap and more than before... And with more and more models the overlaps will be greater and greater
In the early '90s the (then) entry-level mid-engined V8s began to have better performance than the mid-engined flat-12 - Ferrari survived, even though they soon made a change for the front-engine V12 for the top of the range.
