FORMULA 1 HEINEKEN GRANDE PRÊMIO DO BRASIL 2019: RACE *** SPOILERS *** | Page 13 | FerrariChat

FORMULA 1 HEINEKEN GRANDE PRÊMIO DO BRASIL 2019: RACE *** SPOILERS ***

Discussion in 'F1' started by william, Nov 17, 2019.

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  1. zygomatic

    zygomatic F1 Rookie
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    #301 zygomatic, Nov 18, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2019
    I think you're right about Seb & Charles' penalty, but on the Hamilton one - and this is from what I've seen - Lewis wasn't ever going to make that turn on the line he took into the corner (meaning he wasn't going to be able to hug the curb throughouth the curve - he was going to push wide on turn exit), so he was basically sticking his nose inside Albon and effectively saying "up to you whether we crash or not" - which is, I think, deserving of a penalty.

    Said succinctly: Hamilton pulled a Verstappen.

    That said, Albon did leave the door open pretty wide.
     
  2. ktu

    ktu F1 Rookie

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    I just watched the highlights and onboard shot with Lewis and Gasly side by side going for the finish, Looks like Gasly may have damaged the gas pedal! he had that Torro Rosso pinned to the floor! lol
     
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  3. ingegnere

    ingegnere F1 Veteran
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    The car wasn't that bad. They did outqualify the Mercs after all. Remember back to pre summer break how bad the car was. A post break schedule of Spa and Monza helped as did a couple of useful updates to engine and car. Others kept developing, Brazil was favorable to RBR and Leclerc had a poor qualifying plus 10 place penalty combined to make the race what it was. Leclerc at least was in a position to try to attack for 2nd until the bone headed move from his own teammate.
     
  4. ingegnere

    ingegnere F1 Veteran
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    Well said and happy to see that HAM is human, can be forced into an error and can be penalized.

    But my point was that at least in his case it was an attempt to pass, going into a corner, seeing a gap (which ultimately closed) and going for it - as opposed to Vettel's red mist or ineptitude causing him to take out his own teammate on the straight!
     
  5. zygomatic

    zygomatic F1 Rookie
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    Agree completely - it wasn't perfect judgment on Hamilton's part, but we shouldn't expect perfection. Hamilton is human and sometimes we eff-up in split second decisions. Plus - as you say - if he is going to err, erring on the side of "going for it" when there is a gap is the way to err.

    Because it is Brazil, this quote is more appropriate than ever: “If you no longer go for a gap that exists, you are no longer a racing driver.”
     
  6. ktu

    ktu F1 Rookie

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    Lol appropriate quote, to see Ham being so aggressive having already won the championship says a lot as well
     
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  7. zygomatic

    zygomatic F1 Rookie
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    To stir the pot a little on this Monday morning: I watched the race highlights and among them was a rather interesting shot of Leclerc pushing Lando Norris across the track on lap 1 as a way of getting Norris to come off the throttle. Lando had to react quickly and pull himself well off the racing line to avoid contact. The situation was not dissimilar to Vettel / Leclerc later in the race -- only this time it was Leclerc being pushed, and refusing to yield.
     
  8. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Not a bad race all in all. Too bad Vettel ruined it for everyone. Well, not everyone, this gave Alfa some much needed points.
     
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  9. Sig. Roma

    Sig. Roma Formula 3
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    My opinion, if Ferrari is more important than the team, and if the No. 1 driver is being passed by No. 2 who has a better chance of a higher finish than he has, he should have yielded position and given his junior partner the chance to beat out his Dutch competitor.
     
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  10. Nuvolari

    Nuvolari F1 Veteran
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    Great observation and I'm a little amazed that with all the 'experts' here that this point has not yet been touched on. I guess it did not help their case to bash Vettel so might as well ignore it.

    On that subject for those who feel Leclerc was nowhere in the wrong please explain the following photo. I'm sure we can universally agree that the contact was between Vettel's left rear and Leclerc's front right and that the contact was nothing major. That said can anyone reasonably explain why Leclerc has his steering to the right as Vettel is overtaking him on a straight on the right? That little bit of right steering easily made the difference between having contact and not.

    Plenty of blame to go around here and I maintain this a racing incident.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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  11. NeuroBeaker

    NeuroBeaker Advising Moderator
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    That's an interesting screenshot.

    All the best,
    Andrew.
     
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  12. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I disagree. Both were moving left of the straight as depicted by this pic shot in frames...Seb just had to drive straight. Vettel has done this before to Webber in Turkey 2010 knocking himself out that race.

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  13. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

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    Check the footage: Vettel crashed with Leclerc. He made a last move to the left that Leclerc couldn't avoid because he was too close.

    Anyway, both drivers should be more gentle when fighting their team mate. Vettel knows that he's dead if Leclerc beats him and Leclerc likes retaliation, as seen with Verstappen. Binotto should fix this ASAP, probably using a long stick and/or electrodes applied to the nipples.
     
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  14. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Six Time F1 World Champ
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    I told you guys: That Wishin’ Minnow bull-**** is a jinx, a hex and a curse.
     
  15. lagunacc

    lagunacc F1 Rookie
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    Between teammates.

    Even if the blame was equal, the reality is, one's the past (mentality and skill) and one's the future.
    If F can't go for that "gap", we'll get more of the same.
     
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  16. Flavio_C

    Flavio_C Formula 3
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    This screeshot shows nothing against Leclerc: he could have the car be pointed 3 degrees to the left of the normal line and turned slighlty right to straight it up again. Vettel is the one who moved over and crashed on Lec, not the other way around.

    Vettel's move was the typical "intimidating" move that would make a Bottas or a rookie to move over, but not a talent like Leclerc. Leclerc is right to show Vettel that he is not intimidated. Same would happen with Verstappen, they don't give a f@ck about more experienced or world champion drivers.

    Vettel needs to retire or move to Mercedes.
     
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  17. jcurry

    jcurry Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Thanks for posting that frame montage. It illustrates a point regarding DRS. A driver who had just been passed, e.g. Seb, should not have the ability to use DRS so soon. They didn't earn it.
     
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  18. Flavio_C

    Flavio_C Formula 3
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  19. NeuroBeaker

    NeuroBeaker Advising Moderator
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    Hmmm.... I wonder if that analysis will be brought up in a team meeting.

    All the best,
    Andrew.
     
  20. ingegnere

    ingegnere F1 Veteran
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    SI! Senza alcun dubbio!
     
  21. ingegnere

    ingegnere F1 Veteran
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    He drove like Leclerc wasn't there, like he wished him to disappear.

    Again either intimidation or incompetence, not able to judge distance to other car. Maybe he needs glasses.
     
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  22. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    The SKY team was using this data immediately after the incident. The parallels were similar to some.
     
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  23. Nuvolari

    Nuvolari F1 Veteran
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    Did Leclerc not do the EXACT same thing to Lando Norris only MUCH more aggressively on the first lap? Seems like impartiality has abandoned some.
     
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  24. jcurry

    jcurry Two Time F1 World Champ
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    First and foremost the orange car is not a Ferrari.
    Second, completely different circumstance. At the start everyone's head is on a swivel looking out for others jerking all over the track jockeying for position. Not so much when there are just two cars barreling down a long straight where there is plenty of room.
     
  25. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

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    Seems like Vettel is driving with rage only when he has to fight against his team mate
    I would have appreciate the same involvement against Albon for instance
    Not the first time we could see this way of driving when Leclerc is a threat
     
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