VIN Check Digit Incorrect - Factory Error or Shady Vehicle History | FerrariChat

VIN Check Digit Incorrect - Factory Error or Shady Vehicle History

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by jhill6818, Nov 21, 2019.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

?

Is this 1983 Ferrari 308 GTS QV stolen or did Ferrari incorrectly stamp/affix the VIN?

  1. It's Stolen. Sorry bud.

    4 vote(s)
    57.1%
  2. The vehicle is authentic/clean. There was an oversight at the Maranello factory back in '83.

    3 vote(s)
    42.9%
  1. jhill6818

    jhill6818 Rookie

    Nov 7, 2019
    2
    Full Name:
    Jordan Hill
    Too Long; Didn't Read - Is this Ferrari 308 GTS stolen or did Ferrari mess up the VIN?

    Good evening FerrariChat! First time poster here, and I apologize for the novel, but please bear with me because I think I have a story worthy of a Magnum P.I. episode (constructive criticisms appreciated).

    As a backstory, I'm dipping a toe into the water of the 308 GTS QV market. I don't have a specific time-frame for a purchase, but I figure a lot of time spent performing due diligence research and patience will help me find a decent example eventually sometime down the road. This will be my first Ferrari, but the marque has been a passion of mine since my first exposure to an F430 Spider during my college years.

    In starting my vehicle search, I came across an example that was (semi) local to me. It's a 1983 308 GTSi QV in Rosso Corsa over Nero in a pretty fair price range from what I could (initially) tell. The car was found on an online car dealer platform (I'm going to leave names of websites, dealers, and specific VIN information of the vehicle redacted unless etiquette dictates otherwise). Just so happens, that I had a business meeting scheduled about 10 miles from the dealer the week that I came across the 308. Naturally, I had to stop in and give it a look post-lunch.

    I walked into the dealership and struck up a conversation with a sales manager. She gave me a little bit of backstory on the dealership itself, 80% of whose business is selling through consignment vehicles. The conversation turned to the Ferrari. I asked about the backstory of the vehicle. It had been owned by a car enthusiast down in Florida who was allegedly intimate with the auto industry. Having decided it was time, he traded the vehicle in to the dealership and added cash to purchase a Rolls-Royce. Obvious next question from me: Service records. I was pretty disappointed when the manager told me the only service records they had were of the full service which they performed on the vehicle after it was traded in. Red Flag #1. The sales manager was extremely professional and the conversation was amiable. She allowed me to examine and take home the receipts from the services they had performed in-house.

    I asked if it was okay to look around/inspect the vehicle more closely. At this point, the sales manager walked away and let me have some time with the car. I did a thorough cosmetic inspection, both inside and out of the vehicle, taking some pictures of a couple minor imperfections. I snapped some shots of the VIN in various locations on the car as well (door jamb, steering column, etc.). Important Note: All VIN locations displayed matching VINs.

    I thanked the staff again for letting me browse the car (I got a little side-tracked due to the 360 Spider and 575M Maranello parked on either side). When I arrived home, I immediately CarFax'ed the vehicle for s**ts and giggles using the VIN. Weird: No service records on the CarFax, just registration renewals from various locations in the Southeast United States dating back to the early 90's. Also weird: No make/model/trim information in the report. To cross-reference, I CarFax'ed another random '83 308 GTS listed for sale. All make/model/trim information was listed in the header. Red Flag #2.

    From here, I naturally went to Red-Headed and decoded the VIN. Hmm, everything checked out as correctly decoded EXCEPT - you guessed it - the check digit. Red Flag #3.

    Next step: Check the 308 QV registry (Thanks for the resource Wade!). I'm not sure if the registry is a complete listing of all chassis numbers, but it looks fairly complete and the VIN from this 308 GTS wasn't listed... Red Flag #4. I was fed up and went straight to the source from here: Ferrari's website and the owner's recall lookup. This vehicle's VIN doesn't exist. Red Flag #5.

    In my mind, there are only two possible explanations here: 1) This Ferrari was previously stolen, somehow had the title cleaned/reregistered after very diligently changing all VIN numbers and making it look like a factory job or 2) Ferrari made a legitimate mistake and incorrectly labeled the check digit in every location on the vehicle where it was factory stamped.

    I'm sort of at a loss on where to go from here. I am obviously not pursuing this vehicle personally anymore, but I'm too invested in the story to let it go. I need closure! Anyone know of any resources that I can dig through to play historian on this beautiful disaster of a 308?

    Bless you if you stayed with me through this roller coaster. All feedback is greatly appreciated. Here's to hoping I one day find my 308 GTS QV in Rosso Corsa over Nero with Red Piping so that I can officially join this great group of enthusiasts!
     
  2. arizonaitalian

    arizonaitalian F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Oct 29, 2010
    19,897
    Wyoming
    I stopped reading after "Florida".

    Btw - wrt service records, its not "weird" to find none on the carfax (meaning not rare). Its also sadly not rare for Ferrari's to have no physical historical records when they show up for sale (as absurd as it is).
     
  3. Alex308qv

    Alex308qv Formula Junior

    Jul 1, 2016
    378
    PA
    Full Name:
    Alex
    Share the VIN (with photos) and I think others can better respond. Presume it does not have the original Maintenance booklet which has VIN, engine number, selling dealer and other info inside.
     
  4. Zanny1

    Zanny1 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 19, 2003
    974
    Arizona
    Full Name:
    Mike
    I had a Euro GTSi years ago that had the VIN stamped into the frame member to the right of the motor. Up top and easy to read. I don't know if the USA versions have this or not.
    Your post is a little difficult (for me) to understand. What do you mean by "check digit"?
     
  5. Alex308qv

    Alex308qv Formula Junior

    Jul 1, 2016
    378
    PA
    Full Name:
    Alex
    Yes on US models the VIN is stamped on the frame member by the motor (it also has the one atop the steering column and on the door plate). Photos of all three would be helpful.

    The "check digit" is the 9th digit and was originally a way to check that the other alphanumeric information in the VIN would validly go together. The formula can be found in FChat.
     
  6. jhill6818

    jhill6818 Rookie

    Nov 7, 2019
    2
    Full Name:
    Jordan Hill
    Thanks for the feedback so far!

    I (stupidly) didn't ask the dealer about the original Maintenance booklet... I'll reach out to see if it's available.

    Here are some pictures of the door jamb and frame member VIN stampings. I also included a snapshot of the decoded VIN from Red-Headed. 2 CarFax reports are attached. Check out the differences in the "Vehicle History Report" sections. The report that only lists the VIN is the vehicle in question. The other is a report from another '83 308 QV currently for sale.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
     

    Attached Files:

  7. Alex308qv

    Alex308qv Formula Junior

    Jul 1, 2016
    378
    PA
    Full Name:
    Alex
    Yeah that VIN should have a 5 check digit. I am not an expert by any means, but the frame stamping and door plate look normal. (At first I thought the frame VIN looked raised, as if it was welded and restamped, but it was just the shadows of the frame coating tricking my eye.) Some pros here can maybe opine if Ferrari screwed up the check digit sometimes. Suggest posting pic of the VIN plate that's atop the steering column as well.
     
  8. EastMemphis

    EastMemphis Formula 3
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    May 25, 2019
    1,717
    Memphis, TN
    Full Name:
    John
    Have you computed the check digit yourself? It's possible the program you're using has a bug.
     
  9. Alex308qv

    Alex308qv Formula Junior

    Jul 1, 2016
    378
    PA
    Full Name:
    Alex
    I did, yes.
     
  10. EastMemphis

    EastMemphis Formula 3
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    May 25, 2019
    1,717
    Memphis, TN
    Full Name:
    John
    Perhaps the worker who writes up the VIN's at the factory had a birthday and there was a lot of toasting going on.
     
    jhill6818 likes this.
  11. Goodspeed

    Goodspeed Rookie

    Dec 2, 2020
    30
    SF Bay Area
    Full Name:
    Michael
    Exact same thing on my car.

    Came here on a search. Thought the VIN had been incorrectly recorded on the title, because my 1985 308 GTS QV has a "1" stamped as the check digit. But turns out, for my VIN, the correct digit is a "7". The titles going back to 1993, as well as -- critically -- the original dealer sales/service book stamped and dated December 1985 all have the "7".

    Here's a calculator you can use. https://vpic.nhtsa.dot.gov/decoder/CheckDigit

    Upshot, I strongly doubt both these cars are "stolen" and somehow stamped perfectly in every location with a bogus check digit. Also, both times, they just stamped "1" instead of what it should be. Also, in my case, it seems that right from the point of first sale, the dealer seemed to know it should be a "7" and wrote that into the service book.
     
  12. Goodspeed

    Goodspeed Rookie

    Dec 2, 2020
    30
    SF Bay Area
    Full Name:
    Michael
    Put differently, yes, we now have mounting evidence that Ferrari was literally stamping invalid VINs on 308 GTS models. Happened at LEAST twice, both with a "1" for the check digit. Issue is, these cars are not web-searchable because they've probably inherited their "corrected" VINs for title and Carfax purposes at some point.
     

Share This Page