250 Cali Classiche Certification

While the engine is "the heart", notion of a "VIN" is generally associated with a chassis number. And certainly no one would think taking a 250 TR engine and stuffing it into a GTE would suddenly mean that the GTE was now identifiable as a TR...

Have to admit though, that the issue of "what would Enzo have thought" is an interesting one. I've often wondered whether the substitution of a real Testarossa for the fake Daytona in Miami Vice was because the fake Ferrari annoyed Enzo, or because FNA saw a marketing opportunity...

Would Enzo disdain the amount of attention lavished on "obsolete cars", would he be pleased that extra revenue for Ferrari could be extracted from people lavishing such attention, or would he be annoyed that Ferrari was pandering to such things while the F1 team was not winning championships?

If Ferrari were cleaning up in F1, "disdain" and "pleased" might be possibilities. Since Ferrari is not cleaning-up it does seem quite possible that "annoyed" is more likely...

 

Sorry, I mean are there any photos of the car after the fire, in it’s burned and damaged state?

Thank you

 

Yes.

Marcel Massini

 

To respond to some of you about the history of the 250 Cal LWB, the thread really is not a debate or discussion about its history or which state of completion its in the Classiche procedure. We simply want to let you all know that we can offer assistance to those of you out there that are interested in this process. Thanks to all that understand that we do not disclose information regarding our cars or the owners. Simply put this is confidential information. Our clients privacy is of the utmost importance to R3 Motorsports.

Having said all of this, the car is well known in the inner circle of brokers and collectors. For those of you in the know, it has its story and there are a lot of rumors that quite frankly are incorrect. Stories are a big part of what many of the old historical cars have and the Classiche process helps validate fact from fiction. The refreshing part of the Classiche procedure, is that through the process of investigation and working with documents from the factory, we have learned much about the car and it has been a very positive experience. I can see how some of the restoration experts out there can be intimidated by the process. After all there are a lot of cars out there that have had issues that in order to be Classiche'd need to be corrected,.. unfortunately this costs a lot of money and some car owners will argue that there version of the car is correct and that the Factory is wrong... this is can be complicated. If you have any questions about this process, please feel free to PM us,we are here to help.

Regarding this stunning and very important 250 cab, it will go through the process and receive its Classiche certificate. Ultimately, our focus and goal is to bring every car back to its only correct state which can only be verified and validated by Ferrari. When she's ready, we will show it to the world in all her glory that it really deserves.

 

Thanks for your response. I hope it all goes well for you and your client.

 

Ok I will bite how was this car able to get certified without the original engine in the period correct state?

 

He never said it has been certified.

 

I know some of the people involved. Ferrari din't want that car on the air being represented as a Ferrari. So it should go into the annoyed column.

 

Glad to hear it.

Indignation is far more admirable than greed. (And more in line with the mental image that I like to keep for the Enzo Era.)

Mind you, I was at least pleased by the fact that they used real Daytonas for any scenes with the engine-compartment open...

 

Glad to hear it.

Indignation is more admirable than greed. (And more in-line with the mental image I like to keep for the Enzo Era.)

At least they used real Daytonas for any shots with the engine compartment open...

 

Looks like the previous, very ill-fitting windshield was already in the car back then and I assume its framework and trim were also butchered at time of its installation.

 

Congratulation! What do you call "a complicated process" ? Good luck!

 

This is my suspicion, and why I have not initiated a Classiche certification for my 250GT. Knowledgeable people know enough about these cars and do not need a "certification". Any experience regarding "value for money" welcome.

 

I’ve never understood the “money grab” comment. It’s a voluntary service that Ferrari provides for passionate and interested owners, and, of course, they charge for the service. Why wouldn’t they? They are a business and they have something of value to sell. I’m a capitalist and I have no problem with it.

Classiche Certification is a nice compliment to the provenance of your car. It comes elegantly presented in a beautiful book from the factory. Nobody is forcing anybody to get it. I think many who have issues with it don’t understand what is actually being certified. It verifies major systems and components as original or correct for your car. Classiche is not a concours award. I’ve attached the official criteria for anyone who wishes to understand it better.

 

No one says Cali in referring to these beautiful cars.

 

For a reasonably series-production car, I think the only real reason to do the Classiche is to have a hard-to-argue-with statement about the engine/trans/body-number/colors that the car left the factory with. Based on what I have seen, Ferrari is happy to give a RedBook to cars regardless of whether any of these match the current state of the car, but if all happen to be original, the RedBook would provide easy confirmation of what they should be.

There no doubt are other ways to get all this same info, but the average buyer is likely to have the most confidence in what a RedBook says. I think the fact of the matter is that the average buyer is not that knowledgeable, and I've seen plenty of evidence that many advisors of the average buyer are not that knowledgeable either... So I don't think it is unreasonable for some buyers (and sellers) to see value in the certification.

I'm also under the impression that it is possible to get the build-sheet for your car if you are going through the process, and are willing to pay some fee (I imagine). I for one would love to get the sheet for my car, but was told that there was no way to "just get it" from the factory anymore.

One thing that I have never understood is when I read claims that folks have actually modified a car to be *less* original, because the Classiche folks felt that some original detail did not match their expectations. Such a thing seems like madness to me...

 

TTBOMK currently a copy of the build sheets supplied by Classiche (AFTER the red book certification is done) costs US$ 3'000. That's on top of the red book certification costs (which varies on model up to 25 Grand etc). A single letter from Classiche just confirming the original colors (if known at all, not always the case) costs US$ 1'000. Plus taxes. All to be supplied via the authorized Classiche dealer in your area.

Marcel Massini

 

Marcel, From what you have observed, are the build sheets supplied today via the purchase described photocopies or scans of the real, original period build sheets, or just the information re-presented in a modern Classiche format? Thanks, Chris

 

Scans of the real old ones BUT oftentimes/in many cases (not always) they do blank off the internal numbers (such as internal engine block number, gearbox number and rear axle number).

Marcel Massini

 

From what I know, it does not have to be THE engine or driveline part that it left the factory with, it just has to have a period correct, to spec replacement part.

Similar to modern day, if we replace an engine on a 599, it wont be the one that the car came from the factory with, but its replacement would be period correct, built to spec.
NOW, it does have to be documented and confirmed, but if correct , shouldn't keep it from passing.

Isn't that why Ferrari ended up supplying 2 black TR's ( painted white for the show ) ... to keep the replica from poorly representing the marque?

There was a time when we could request , build sheet ( $625-$1250+ , letter confirming original color and number $875, technical data sheet $1250, heck even a metallographic test for $2500+ ) but rules have changes and the factory has become more stringent in its processes.

If you want to PM me the chassis, I will ask and see if they give me a thumbs up or not... cant hurt to ask.

Of the scans I have had in hand, I do not remember having anything redacted , maybe it was due to the examples I requested, didn't require any?

S

 

Thank you Marcel

 

[QUOTE="SAFE4NOW, post: 147297576, member: 11545"
There was a time when we could request , build sheet ( $625-$1250+ , letter confirming original color and number $875, technical data sheet $1250, heck even a metallographic test for $2500+ ) but rules have changes and the factory has become more stringent in its processes.
S[/QUOTE]

There was a time when you could get the build sheet for free.

 

Yep, I did in 1984 at the office in Modena and it did not cost anything but a 15 minute wait.

Best regards,

Robert