For me.....no stripes, no thanks... The striping really sets the track special cars apart....you know they are special coming at you on a 2 lane road.....
I think a good part of why this persists is because Ferrari does not offer a good color palette for non PTS cars.
didn't I just point out four recent sales that were more or less within that model? Including one non-red 20k mile car? And my red, factory stripe, 19k mile car sold for mid 180's last year. What 20k miles CS have you seen actual sale numbers on that are much different? If you know of some other "sales" at different prices, please post em up.
I don't think you know what 'fits within the model" means. what about Ingenere's car that sold for no more than its $165k asking price? (I included that one. It too fits the 20k mile model). How many of these do you think sell by category that I summarized? (there are not going to be more than a handful of actual sales each year - even less where we actually know the selling price) This thread's purpose benefits when people post actual data points and discuss. Do you know some? I'm not sure what you point is, but you are coming off argumentative without any data points and challenging with any knowledge. If you know of some 20k mile striped CS that sold for more than 180k range recently, please share! If, otoh, you are looking for listing like that...good luck. Most sellers are not in the land of reality. I wasn't when I started at $230k range. Ingenere wasn't when he started at $250k range. So I don't know what listing prices are out there, but obviously selling price is market, not asking (I wish that weren't true more than anyone).
If 19K miles red car went for $185K, then would a 40K miles car Titanium Grigio go for $160K? A dollar a mile?
less. That's not what the simple model I backed into from the recent data points suggests. A 20k grigio car without stripe goes for 165k recently...so a 40k mile one goes for well less than that. Fwiw, I don't know that we've seen enough data points to know what happens after 20k miles (the line may not be linear, I presume its not really linear over any long stretch of mileage, but did so for the simple model). There were a couple of 30-40k examples over the past couple of years, but I don't recall what they finally sold for. I seem to recall asking prices struggling downwards past 160k though. Anyone have that info to post? And...gents...please keep its just a simple regression model (as is really simple) because we have so few data points. That's why it so generously rounded off. It reminds me of the old saw; "you can draw whatever line you want through one data point". This is attempting to determine a model with only 4 datapoints. So, its not some precise thing (as I said before). I know you don't imply that, but wanted to get that out there before anyone gets the wrong idea. What we need are more data points. Real sales are hard to come by for sadly obvious reasons...
Not sure why you get triggered so easily....as a prospective buyer, I just wanted to know if there are a reasonable supply of red/stripe/20k mile $180k cars out there. I don't have any ulterior motives or any competing data. I'd be tempted to wish you a happy Thanksgiving.....but you could use some hard liquor more than turkey.
true, I don’t drink enough! If you had used some more words to better describe what you were after, I’d have gotten it sooner. I took it as you calling BS on my posts (seems I was wrong, apologies.) To your question; there isn’t a reasonable supply of CS’s ever. Let alone red with factory stripe and driven to the ungodly mileage of 20,000. There are so few of them and many have a history or story that causes them to sit on the market. Then you take the cars with dreamer asking prices away and you are left with very few that fit the bill (priced to sell and non storied). There have been a few, but really it’s something like a couple of cars per quarter, and most of those have lower mileage and thus higher asking prices. You will also see cars get passed around from retailer to retailer. The irony is that it also takes forever to find a buyer for these cars. Some of that is attributed to owners asking too much to move it, but a lot imho is an abundance of other options at the $150-230k price level. That equates to finding a buyer that really wants a CS and nothing else. There are some buyers who want one to show/own but they want lower miles. There simply aren’t many that want a “driver CS”. If you are wanting a 20k driver red striped CS, one will come along. Post a wanted ad here and PM stokpro. Maybe ask mike at yellow compass to watch for one. Let Cam at CNC know and a couple of dealers. They will be more willing to take one on trade if they have a ready buyer.
There simply aren’t many that want a “driver CS”. That statement reveals the true travesty of all this. What a great driving car.....
All this stuff moves in cycles. Agree that right now there are so many options in this price range the market is soft to absorb it all. Some day in the future a new round of buyers will circle back to the older “classic” stuff again. I personally crossed shopped a 991 gt3rs, 997 gt3rs and a 600LT. Love porsche but needed a break after almost a decade of all 911s. Drove 600lt, really liked it. Drove Scud, fell in love. Done deal. I wasn't in position to own these cars when they were knew so am circling back now. In 10 years there will be a new group of ferrari buyers driving electrified stuff that want to fill the classic spot in the garage with one of these cars.
Perhaps “want a driver at $150k - $230” would be better. That’s GT3 Touring money, and I’d rather have one of those in PTS with a stick. I’m sure the pool would be greater if the price were lower. I’d look a lot harder at one at 120 than 180...
Totally agree. Loved 911 as a kid and have owned and daily driven about 5. At this point I don’t care if I never see another one again. Of any of the zillions of variety. I don’t see how anyone can get excited about these over produced and over exposed cars at this point in time.
While I know this is a Ferrari site and Porsche tends to get bashed around, a GT3 of any variety is a great car by itself. The 996GT3 was a direct track competitor to the CS in 2004. Can anyone get excited about these "over produced" and "over exposed" cars at this point? Well, Porsche continues to sell their cars to a much larger market than Ferrari so there seems to be a lot of excitement. However, the emotional connection to a Ferrari wins hands down, even if it is among a much smaller market.
The 911 appeal is they are easy to buy, pretty damn reliable and well built and you get to drive them worry free. Ferrari’s are more special but I also think that is why people worry about mileage and don’t drive them as much as 911 owners.
I’m not sure the fact there are other cars in the $150-230k range impacts CS values in a meaningful way. Perhaps a tiny number of buyers cross-shop the Stradale with other cars in that price range, but by and large these aren’t really an “either/or” purchase; they’re “in addition to”.
I can’t say for sure about value (but supply and demand usually would suggest that). I can say there are very few CS buyers out there. I heard from several when selling my car they had not narrowed it down to a CS, but rather were also still considering 458 and scud and GT3 (I didn’t hear anyone say McClaren, but that wouldn’t surprise me either). And that doesn’t count the guys that already decided in favor of one of those and thus didn’t call me at all. It’s an impact for sure. How big? Hard to say. But these cars can take a long while to sell. I do think this factors more for driver mileage cars than collectibles (where if one wants to add a CS to a collection, then only a CS will do).
Here’s a good video on the collector car market. It echoes what I’ve been saying for a while now. Too many special edition cars. The CS is specifically mentioned in the video in a good way.
Couldn’t agree more on the Porsche POV. LMAO at those cars and prices. Sounded lame, back then, still do now.
100% agree..... Porsche’s are a dime a dozen Maybe with the exception of the early GT2 and the RS America....
ZFFDT57B000138972 is for sale in the US at Ferrari Westlake. European car, recently imported and federalized to drive legal in the US. $150k carbon exterior by Zanasi I don't know too much about this car. Apparently it started as a Rosso Fiorano car, then it got a clear carbon exterior and now it has a dark reddish carbon exterior (see archive photos below). Carbon exterior / radio / fire extinguisher / rollbar / dedication plate Mileage 13106 miles Asking price $329000 Link to registry: http://www.challengestradale.com/138972.html Link to dealer: https://ferrariwestlake.com/vehicle/2004-360-challenge-stradale/ Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Clear carbon fiber extrior Image Unavailable, Please Login Original color Image Unavailable, Please Login
