Are you under water?

For classic Ferrari owners (cars at least 20 years old), if you sold your Ferrari today at market price, do you believe you would at least recover your original investment plus cumulative cash costs during your ownership? Or would you come up short (i.e., you're "under water")? Keep this very simple, just consider the nominal costs in the years incurred (i.e., ignore inflation effects), and ignore non-cash costs like your home garage and personal labor.

 

If people bought a testarossa for example, at the height of the frenzy 4 years ago or so..then yes well under water. Some paid over 400k for a 6 speed 430, or 600k for a 6 speed 599. The values have dropped significantly over the last couple of years. The folks who were lucky enough to sell..best investment they ever made..

 

Wonder how many people would be completely honest about losses like this....

 

Not too many I'm afraid..

 

I bought my GTC on November 8th, 1975.
Still have it and I think I'll do OK when I sell.

 

Bob, I had a fifteen year head start on you and I did alright...

Best regards,

Robert

 

Not a classic, but half way to your 20 year cut off. Our Cali has cost us about $150/day or about $10/mile all-in. That's purchase price, gas, taxes, insurance, maintenance, etc. Cheapskate me says "Holy carp!". I don't know if I'm upside down or not (don't think so, paid for it with cash), but you can't take it with you, and the good news is that both averages get lower the longer I own it and the more I drive it...T

 

Since I would have to pay capital gains taxes on any profit, I am reasonably sure I will be "upside down" if I were to sell my 328. That answer is true regardless of the market value at the time of sale.

 

Didn't buy a Ferrari to worry about its value!
No pockets in a coffin.

 

Not under water...l live at 8,000 feet above sea level.

 

Unfortunately many people overvalue the cars that they own. I’m not sure if it’s ignorance or an inability to admit that their car has lost a ton of value.

Seems many people think they’re gonna sell their 8000 mile 720S for $280K or that their 458 Italia is an “appreciating asset”, or that their 488 Pista Spider will sell for $900K once the time limits expire.

 

Stick to four-digit serial number cars and you’ll be fine.

I chose an odd number, and did really well. But you’ll do even better with an even number car.

Matt

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I like Matt’s reply, but go further.

1. Stick to 5 digit (or less) cars (V12 w/ carbs).
2. stop around 1974.
3. remember what Kenny Rodgers said: don’t count your money till the dealings done. Aka timing is everything
4. If you’re buying a Ferrari to make money, please don’t buy it. Let someone else buy it who will actually appreciate it, drive it, and enjoy it (not the idea of owning it).
5. Last: if you don’t spend your money, your kids will.

 

Luckily in the U.K. there’s no capital gains tax on cars and watches.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

investment?

 

Hi, Robert - I read quite a bit about your incredible history with your car and I was really impressed with your amazing cross-country drive.
Can you imagine doing that today?
You did quite a job of documenting the restoration.
I bought my car from John Apen at FAF (Now Ferrari of Atlanta) in Atlanta from an ad in Road and Track.
It was the first twelve cylinder car they sold.
I'm the second owner and I've put over 150,000 miles on it and it's still a daily driver.
It has absolutely no history!
I actually faced some mocking harassment from local car enthusiasts: "For that money you could have bought a new Corvette!" and "You should get rid of it because it will probably be worthless in another ten years".
No substitute for cubic ignorance.
I have no intention of selling it as long as I can safely drive it - after that, who knows?
I'm single, never married, no kids.
When I check out, the GTC will be properly disposed of (I hope!).

Bob Z.

 

Dear Bob,

I disagree! Your car has history, and that is it is, and has been, driven as Ed Gilbertson has proclaimed for many years. Keep it up, you are doing the right thing and enjoying it.

You mentioned my drive from Oakland to Staten Island, while there are many stories from that drive, there are also several about my driving the car to and from the race track events in 1964 and 1967. Imagine driving back from Bridgehampton to Bayonne, NJ on a late Sunday afternoon in July in a race car with a nine metal disc plate clutch (either in or out) and a race motor unhappy under 3500 RPM and the Long Island "Expressway" packed with returning beach traffic. Nightmare!

As for the OP perspective, you will never be upside down if you put a value on the experience.

Best regards,

Robert

 

"On paper" I have done ok.

20405 '76 steel....bought at $27K, sold at $24K with huge needs
22641 '77 steel....bought at $25 K sold at $24K, now undergoing total resto and looking great (no real mechanical repairs needed)

22127 I kept as the "best one".... purchased $30K and now maybe worth $80K??
I don't think I could bear to sell it for that, but the overall market is "down" on the 5 digit cars.

Just imagine if I had landed the fiberglass 308GTB at what....$36K!!
But we discussed it, and JRV greatly preferred the steel NON CAT examples....RIP

I'm ready for something new, a 6 speed 430, perhaps....

 

Your question is unfair as it doesn't include the joy of driving a Ferrari

The people who bought the early V12s or 246/365BB/512BB long ago may be above water per your question, but not many others.

 

I would like to know where 20405 is, as it was actually a Factory blue car also!!

Assuming they sand it down....

 

Absolutely, as my numbers show, and a friend pointed out:

"You got most of your money back and you drove them to pieces!
That's making money, in the Collector Car world...."

 

Testarossa LHD ( Swiss ) 1999 bought @ £24 K ......sold for £ 40 K ish 2008 . Added up = cost neutral , free Ferrari motoring for 25000 miles added .

2008 a month after the “ crash “ bought a 360 F1 for £42 K .....sold it Jan 17 £56 K .Added up came out with a small profit so again free Ferrari motoring for another 15000 miles

Third attempt .......@ loosing money with F cars .....l
Summer 2018 bought a 208 GT4 Dino £28 K ....put £5 k in it and still have it ....LHD 1977 , not rust .....gonna hang on it’s now used / enjoyed by me in classic rallye.....I prefer to actually drive this despite its meagre 160 Hp only 840 made for the home market not sure how many left . You can’t stop loving Carburettor / gated era Ferrari’s .Or any car without ECUs spoiling the drive .

 

You bought a cheap-ass coffin then.....mine has pockets & a cup holder. Can't wait to put that sucker to good use.

 

Did you upgrade to the carbon fiber cup holder option?
T

 

Yeah, I'm weight challenged so I needed to lighten up something....