What is the cheapest you can expect to pay for a "good" 599? | Page 2 | FerrariChat

What is the cheapest you can expect to pay for a "good" 599?

Discussion in '612/599' started by ibesuc, Dec 5, 2019.

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  1. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 World Champ

    I’m telling u they have some kind of connexion with Ferrari San Francisco; which one I don’t know how... maybe Ferrari whole sales then what they would not sale? Not sure


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  2. Skidkid

    Skidkid F1 Veteran
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    Likely that they know each other and move cars to the market that they might be able to be sold.

    Not all services are important but some are critical. You didn't change the pollen filter, the tires are 12 years old, etc. Those are more or less 'so what'. They do indicate that the car hasn't been used and/or you need to inspect the other issues in more detail; it is indicative on neglect so what else was skipped. The OP appears to want us to say 'those are great cars'. I suggest he is an expert, so go for it.
     
  3. brogenville

    brogenville Formula 3
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    I think the only thing this thread really serves, is to show that we each have our definition of what “good” is, for what “well maintained” means, and for general risk tolerance. Some people thrive on shopping at the bottom of the pile (anyone watch Ed Bolians’ stories on Vinwiki?), and others have a very low tolerance for anything going wrong with a car. You have to know what you’re doing (or you will get bitten in the arse), but buying cheap isn’t necessarily dumb. You just have to buy at the right (cheap) price. Easier said than done of course.
     
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  4. ibesuc

    ibesuc Formula Junior

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    Probably owned by the same holding company.
     
  5. ibesuc

    ibesuc Formula Junior

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    ^This. I've seen some of the VinWiki videos and in Ed Bolian's words, he likes to buy high mileage cars for a low price and then "play Russian roulette with the maintenance." Meaning paying a lower price and hoping the car doesn't require expensive repairs, though if it does he'll more or less be in for the same amount as he would have been had he bought a low-mileage car. He also offers two viewpoints: either low mileage cars means the parts are less used and will last longer, or higher mileage could mean that things have already broken and been fixed. Pretty sure he's worked in the exotic car industry for many years. He has a Scuderia with 30-40k miles.

    I'm no expert but my point is that Bolian's advice above is pretty applicable to modern Ferraris, mainly the ones with timing chains instead of belts. The room for error in Ferraris' maintenance programs seems to be lower today than in earlier cars. There is no doubt though that Ferrari service records will remain value-determinative regardless of how much they actually determine the running condition of the car.

    And assuming above link is the official Ferrari 599 maintenance schedule and Ferrari originally recommended the coolant flush for 100k miles, then doing the coolant flush earlier seems to be a valuable "mechanic's tip." I'll for sure flush it now!

    Cheers!
     
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  6. randkin

    randkin Formula 3
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    Buying cheap is OK for those who have the skill set to do their own work and have access to a good deal on parts. Otherwise just rolling the dice 50/50 chance for a good or bad result. That's why I am not a gambler I always like the odds in my favor.:)
     
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  7. flat_plane_eddie

    flat_plane_eddie F1 Rookie
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    Another problem with buying cheap high mileage exotics is that when it comes time to sell, interest will only be from bottom feeders and even then, it will be limited. Every high mileage exotic I've had was difficult to sell. Not doing that again. Even if you find a higher mileage car that's had everything replaced, it's still tough.
     
    LightGuy likes this.
  8. LightGuy

    LightGuy Three Time F1 World Champ
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    There was a black low mile HGTE that sold for a song earlier this year that had the front bumper torn off when the owner was backing down a drive.
    Because of the Carfax showing airbag sensor replacement they assumed and reported an air bag deployment.
    Sometimes good deals DO come along.
    Yes resale would have been the same tough sell story but the car itself was nice.

    I should have bought that car; alas still waiting for some land to sell.
    Now I'm looking at other models as well.
     
  9. RonH

    RonH Formula 3

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    Eddie, the other way to go about it is the way I often do it. I pay a premium for low mileage, no story cars because, as you said, you don't want to be in the position of trying to resell them if they are high mileage. Then I fall in love with them, keep them for years and turn them into high mileage exotics that are difficult to sell. ;)
     
  10. RedNeck

    RedNeck F1 Veteran
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    I went and looked at the one in Marietta today, took quite a few pictures also. Didn’t drive it as it was in a showroom, but looks like it would be a decent drivers car if you could get past some rocks chips and some interior blemishes. No service history expect what’s in the Carfax (not much).
     
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  11. flat_plane_eddie

    flat_plane_eddie F1 Rookie
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    It'll definitely be a bit harder to sell than a low mileage example but if you show records and you've owned it for many years, that speaks for itself. The worst is the high mileage, multiple owners and no service records.
     
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  12. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    in my experience (50 cars in 20 yrs) higher mile cars are actually more liquid and sell quicker than low mile garage queens. im not commenting on value or relative value, but just on days to sell.
     
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  13. Themaven

    Themaven F1 Rookie

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    Taz, so should I ask for my 575 coolant to be replaced at this year’s service? The car is currently in. No evidence of change I can see in her (otherwise very thorough) service history.

    Sorry to derail the thread. I would run 1000 miles from that Toyota 599. I wouldn’t fly in a plane that wasn’t maintained by the right mechanic and I wouldn’t buy a 599 sold by Toyota.
     
  14. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #39 tazandjan, Dec 16, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2019
    Darius- Affirmative. I still use Zerex G05 with nitrites for liner erosion and I change coolant every 2 years. If your tech uses an extended life coolant with organic acid technology to prevent liner erosion, those additives theoretically can last up to 5 years. That is too long for me.

    There is a thread in the 456/550/575 forum documenting liner burn-through on a 550 with no coolant changes for a long, long time. Lack of coolant changes has caused a lot of problems for Ferraris. On the 360s it causes failures of the transaxle cooler with coolant/transaxle oil interface. That can trash the transaxle, too, when coolant mixes with the oil. Coolant does not make a good lubricant for gear sets and synchronizers.
     
  15. FerrariF50lover

    FerrariF50lover Formula 3

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    Theres a lot of dealer principles who have the means to have cars like these and then sell them off at their own dealerships. Just because a Ferrari is for sale at a Toyota dealership doesn't mean that the car doesn't have a great service history.
     
  16. ibesuc

    ibesuc Formula Junior

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    I posted the link - haven't looked into the car much beyond that. You'd definitely want to learn more about the car's story and how it got there while also trying to see through the salesman's facade. Yes, it could have been a dealer principal's car but it could also be a ratty example that Ferrari didn't want to sell and instead sent it off to Toyota.

    No doubt a good ppi obviously is pertinent. Still, there is possibility there for a good deal for someone who wants a driver. Not sure I'd run 1,000 miles away from it but it's possible I wouldn't pursue purchasing the car.
     
  17. randkin

    randkin Formula 3
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    Nate you are correct, no reason why it could not have perfect maintenance. However my limited experience (about 18 months of searching) was that Fcars selling an non Fdealers were either (taken in trade (not sure what Toyota I would consider trading a Ferrari for) or they are cars purchased at auction (in which case maintenance records are seldom available) or cars from a Fdealer who did not want to resell the vehicle. Sometimes on consignment at a used car dealers but those generally were rather sketchy. All of the above reasons are ones to be vary warry about. IMO

    I have seen a few Ferraris at Porsche, MB & Lamo dealers which were not bad but then most did not have service records nor did I get a PPI as I was just not interested in those particular cars. The other problem buying from a not Fdealer is the sales folks know absolutely nothing about Ferraris so you must bring ALL the expertise either by your own knowledge or from a person capable of doing a good PPI. It seems to me that the risk reward ratio is just not stacked in favor of the buyer in those situations which a reason in-itself to steer clear.

    What kind of experience do you have researching Ferraris in the second hand market place? Let us all know how your experience is different and what success you have had in this area.
     
    RonH likes this.
  18. FerrariF50lover

    FerrariF50lover Formula 3

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    To be honest what you said makes a ton of sense. I think we can take a look at high end used car dealers that could provide far more data than the average Toyota store. The later cars are much more reliable and while they do need service that service isn't quite like it used to be (engine out's, cam belts, etc.) While I agree a little due diligence is needed when buying something of this caliber (ppi) but the lack of records doesn't mean a car is unreliable or not. But I feel your right it might not be worth the risk to some people.
     
    ibesuc likes this.
  19. open roads

    open roads F1 Rookie

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    I agree with others here. "Good" is subjective.

    $100K
     

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