Not really. If you shoot for a life with kids, a house, spending money etc, and then add the ferrari..good stuff. If you just want the ferrari because you think it will give you a sense of achievement and instant gadification, it's the wrong move. Build a solid foundation before adding the toy.
Yes austere is our way as well. We have been ultra conservative since our marriage started. Cleaned up debt, bolstered savings/investments. We have purchased 2 rental properties and we are comfortable self-managing up to about 5. I should probably wait on Ferrari until we get to 5 properties, but we are already saving for property 3 now with rents from 1 and 2. I feel like this is the opportunity to check this box. I’m not under any sort of ruse that the car will “complete” me or change anything about my life. It’s just a toy (a beautiful toy though) we intend to enjoy and have fun with in rare down time. Thanks, Grant
The reality is though, for the average working Joe (those who work at the ground level of the factories, offices, garages, shops/stores, delivery companies etc., etc., - Who aren't earning $50K+ per year ) who once dreamt of owning a Ferrari, getting married, having kids, buying a house, going on family holidays, putting the kids through college, and all of the insurance and other bills that go with family life, more often than not means they will never achieve their dream, because they will never have the money for it. (And if the marriage breaks down and ends in divorce (as so many do), and there are children involved, then any dreams of owning a Ferrari can definitely be forgotten!) It's "the wrong move" why exactly? Because achieving your life dream will not make you happy? Because everyone should get married, have kids and buy a multi-bed house before they even try to achieve their life dream? I saw my first Ferrari (a red 308 GTS with light tan interior) in 1979 when I was 9 years old, and fell in love with it instantly. I decided there and then that one day, I would own a Ferrari. I made a deliberate decision that I was never going to get married, and I did not want to have children. I did buy a house - a small, single bedroom house, because it was cheaper than renting, and made more sense. 36 years after seeing that 308 GTS, having told everyone I ever knew at school, at college, and at work, that I would own a Ferrari one day (and hearing them all say it would never happen! ), having made sacrifices, and having saved money when I could, I achieved my dream and bought my Ferrari. When I took possession of the car, the sense of achievement was unbelievable! - As was the fact that having achieved my dream, I hadn't lied to anyone by saying I would own a Ferrari one day. As for instant gratification - I got that every single time I drove the car. Just looking at that prancing horse on the steering wheel, and sounding the twin Fiamm horns had me grinning like a kid, every time! An illness forced me to sell the car after a couple of years, but I sold it for more than I'd bought it for, so owned it for nothing. I'm now in a position to buy another Ferrari, and with the UK market still dropping, some very nice cars are slowly coming into my price range. Do I regret never getting married?: No, I get to come and go as I please, and do whatever I want, as and when I want - My life is 100% my own. Do I regret not having children?: No, I have a fabulous niece and nephew who I dote upon, and think the World of, so children are covered nicely. I'd say: Have your toys when you can, because life can be very short, and there can be a whole host of complications that can stand in the way of achieving your dreams!
Step 1. EVALUATE. Do you WANT a Ferrari or, would you LIKE TO HAVE a Ferrari. Slight Change IN Semantics ... HUGE Change in OUTCOME. STEP 2. Develop a PLAN that ADDS UP and impliment it. Read it EVERY DAY. BEFORE You DO ANYTHING ask, 'How does this get me closer to F-Car OWNERSHIP?' IF 'IT' Doesn't GET You CLOSER, perhaps you should DO 'IT.' STEP 3. ATTAIN GOAL. Easy Peasy, BUT ONLY IF You WANT IT. That pretty much worked for many of us. My Average BEFORE Taxes Pay over my ENTIRE Working Adult Life of 33 years, was about $40- $42K/Year, maybe a bit less. (Beer-Math). And I started Adulthood with a College Debt of over $40K in today's dollars pocketing $884.48 a month. I W.A.N.T.E.D. a Ferrari. Easy Peasy.
It is good to have goals OP, but remember no one will judge your life based on what car you were able to afford. I like cars, (I should I've had enough of them), but you know what OP, sometimes the dream is better than the reality. I say this often, buy an Alfa 4C, it is a better car than any of the Ferrari's you mentioned, and if you spend about 3-4K (in aftermarket products), is a better car than the 430. You might even be able to get 0% financing on a new one still sitting at a dealer, so you would not pay finance charges (that statement about not paying interest make no sense to me), and get a car right now. Yes this is a car forum, but OP you asked a life type question so here is a life type answer. Cars are just machines some better some worse (kind of like a coffee maker), and if you think owning a particular one makes your life better, then it is time to take a better look at your life. Sorry I was working on my new novel before I logged in, puts me in a strange mood. Good luck OP, and go test drive a 4C, if you know anything about cars, you will see I'm giving you very good advice.
Appreciate your take. For sure not expecting it to make my life any better. I’m happy On the interest point, I went a little nutty with car loans and credit cards years ago. So about 10 years back, I started following Dave Ramsey. If you haven’t followed him, he doesn’t borrow- so I don’t either. Nothing against anyone else borrowing (own small shares in banking and credit card lenders) but it’s just not for me. Even at 0%. My best, Grant
I'm all for the buy cars in cash. But I'm going to be the odd man out here. Since I paid off all the DD's in half time I'm buying all cars in cash... but I write this 9 years AFTER I bought my 360. If I had to pay cash for the car.. I still wouldn't have it. Something always would have gotten in the way. I bought the cheapest 360 in the recession and then used the low rates to finance it. Did 5 years and then paid it off in 3. Reason I did this route is I knew a) I have a stable income that I can afford the payment without any interruptions to savings and investments, etc. and b) I saw in medicine that life doesn't always follow OUR plans. Things get thrown at us that we don't expect and tomorrow has no guarantee. I don't regret my decisions one bit. Oh, and I respect the opinions here but... Unless you get what you really want you go through the rest of your life looking at what you really wanted regretting not having it.
Totally can understand your point. Glad you have the 360. I can only imagine the ups and downs of life that you see on a daily basis. I am in a sales role where I work at the pleasure of bosses who constantly get cycled through churn-and-burn style. One political mis-alignment and it could all end in one day. Sales is all I’ve ever done, I’m a hack at about anything else . If I died tomorrow, I know that I had the love of my family and friends and enjoyed some great toys along the way. Hopefully the man upstairs gives me a few more years, so I can enjoy an old Ferrari someday
There are times financing is a smart move and I use it to negotiate. Dealers get back end kickbacks so I tell them I will spilt the kickback and not pay off the car until (usually 90 days sometimes 120), they get their kickback on the loan. Of course it does not work with 0% deals. After close to 500 cars bought there are not many tricks I have not used. I owned 3 360's a 2 430's (gearshift in each), and my modified 4C (make sure you get 18/17' wheel combo). was better than any of them. Which is why I want another one. When it was parked over at Algar Ferrari people walked right by 400K Ferrari's to take pictures and ask questions about it. If you just want a prancing horse (which I understand from being on here so long that you normal folks feel emotional about machines) on your car well you probably will not heed my advise, If you do want a very special (and probably never be another car like it) Italian sports car you can afford (that it super easy to maintain), you will buy a 4C.
I will remember to keep this up my sleeve. Other than with 0% deal as you mentioned, how does this typically work out? Do the dealers generally react positively, and how is it reflected? They give you some cash or they knock your share of the financing kickback off the price of the car at the time of sale?
I was able to afford my first Ferrari after I got divorced. I was fortunate that the timing was right at the peak of the housing prices so when we split up and sold the house we made a boatload of money. After a few years and several cars later I decided to get married again and start a family. The first couple of years were tough with all the events that I had attended previously going on and not participating because I didn't have a Ferrari but I knew to stick with my plan of putting a little aside every year. Fast forward to now and having saved enough that I purchased a 360 spider last weekend paying cash. It took 11 long years of watching from the sidelines but I am so excited that the patience has paid off.
Watch the Business & Investment section. Some really smart folks there. Much of it’s way over my head, but for buying / selling suggestions and more importantly big picture strategy it’s excellent. I make lots of notes.
0 I relate to each and everthing you have said....except having children. Children change your world. Really. It cant be exlained nor rationalized. It just does. I would happily exchange my nice collection for one more child. Adding a car now ... not so hard. A child ? Waiting on grandkids PS I bought my first used Ferrari after working every hour of overtime offered, newly married, in a 1000 sq/ft house. Priorities .
Many many financial firms offer educated experianced opinion for free. The deal is you have to have a goal and plans to get there. Ferraris included. I sacrificed some long term accumulation for fun while I was young. No regrets. Living on oatmeal gets old. Ballance.
Update for December 2019. You guys are my accountability partners lol Image Unavailable, Please Login
Hi Grant: I only started thinking seriously about buying a Ferrari in my last 2 years working. I to waited until I had the cash and had all my domestic bases covered. I live a long way from a Ferrari Dealer so was looking for an older model that I could do much of the annual maintenance, up keep and minor repairs my self. I finally decided on a 1999 355 F1 Spider for the reasons I have stated, plus the fact that to my eye the 355 is one of the prettiest F cars made. I had never driven a F car before making the deposit on the car and flying across Canada to take it for a test drive. Mainly through F Chat I was able to learn about the items on the original 355's that should be address before purchase. The car I found had +44k miles on it but had all the issues addressed plus a timing belt service. Now 4 years later with +52k miles in the clock I have the following observations: 1. If you are looking for a car to drive, not a garage Queen, a relatively high mile car that has been driven and properly maintained is a good bet. 2. Have a compression test done prior to purchase. 3. Recent timing belt service including the associated bearings, water pump etc, etc is a big plus. 4. So far, apart from yearly fluid changes, I have had to replace the fuses for the cooling fans once, the battery once, replaced the mounts for the air cleaner boxes, 1 gear on the active suspension actuator, and as a precaution installed an upgraded relay for the F1 pump. So repair cost has been reasonable. 5. I am saving money for the up coming timing belt / 5 year service, That I hope to be able to do for between $5 ~ 6K. 6. Get familiar with the companies that provide service and can supply you with spare parts. You can get their contact info on this site. 7. The model specific sites on Ferrari Chat are awesome and provide a vast amount of information on your model that can save you lots of $$$$$. In summary I get a thrill every time I pull the cover off the car, and fire it up, a huge smile across my face when driving a twisty costal road, top down, and right foot hard on the throttle. No car I have ever driven sounds as good as the 355 at full throttle. Be patient, get the car that makes your heart beat quicken and enjoy. And oh yes, don't expect to pass many gas stations Ken
The actual price of a car can be tricky. Dealers will show you invoice pricing, but car companies do things for dealers that you don't see. There are incentives, ad dollars, bonuses for hitting target numbers etc. Then there is the financing kickbacks, these are negotiated so they do vary. Kerbeck Corvette will even advertise on their site that if you finance your car they give you 1k in addition off the price. I have been able to always get at least $1500 off the deal after I bring this part up. There is a level of trust involved because they have to trust you will not pay off the car before they get their commission (usually 90 days). The dealers I work with know I know about these things and they know I never break my word. Larger dealers have more leverage with car companies and banks so they usually have more money I just call it the backend profit, which is usually more than they actually make on a new car sale. It sucks for (commissioned) salespeople who probably never know what the owners are actually making on each car.
Interesting, yes I have heard about some of the spiffs that dealers get. My credit is actually frozen with all three bureaus, so I’d be denied any credit. My hope is to find a car from a private party when the time comes. They will have to work with me on a PPI. I don’t think I’ve purchased a vehicle from a dealer for probably 20 years now. So many fees and I realized that many of their cars are just auction cars anyway. I’m sure that in the Ferrari community, many dealers do know the history of the cars. G
Grant I strongly agree with and appreciate your position regarding personal debt, smart man. However, I don’t understand how you reconcile that same finically responsible mindset with the purchase of a very high maintenance vehicle that you are struggling to afford? At 41, you (hopefully) have many years ahead to accumulate and build wealth. Dropping a meaningful portion of your net worth on a car early in that process would be huge setback, irrespective of whether you buy in cash or not. Since you are philosophically adverse to paying interest to banks, that implies that you clearly see the benefit of being on the other side of that equation? If you continue to patiently save and stockpile cash as you are, before long your savings begin appreciate and throw off dividends and interest. In essence, you will become “the bank” that for good reason you don’t wish to pay interest or be indebted to. Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
Ferrari dealers are car dealers, they just sell expensive cars. Relationships with dealers is the same as any relationships, some good some bad. I bought 25 cars from the same salesperson at a certain dealer, but the management did something I was not happy with and I will never buy or send them another customer again. Ferrari dealers rely on used car sales and service to stay in business, they could never survive by just selling new cars. The car I just bought from my dealer was a one owner local car that was sold and serviced at my dealer, so the fact that it was a higher mileage car was a plus for me (I got a much better deal), I would not have bought it if that were not the case. I don't know what you mean when you say your credit is frozen, but I made 24% on my investments this year, the highest amount I have paid in recent memory for a car loan was 4.99%, so in my opinion I'd rather invest money than buy an asset that will just depreciate each day. Based on that I would make more money in 4 years keeping my money invested than buying something that will be worth less and not having that money to invest. Seems like a no brainer to me, but I am not 41, not normal, and not in the same place in life you are OP. Though keep in mind this I have an 8th grade education, was homeless living on the streets at 20, and now I am closing in on 500 cars (including 8 Ferrari's), and tell my accountants. lawyers, and doctors what to they need to do. I have watched people my whole life (I had learn to mimic your behaviors to appear normal, these days I don't care how I appear), and if there is one thing I have learned from that, there is almost always more to the story than you might at first think. You have your reasons I'm sure, and I don't care what they are. Me I'm trying to make a dealer for a loaded 4C spider, and trust me I've forgotten more about cars than most people will ever know. It is a light years better car than any Ferrari that to car buy for what I'm going to pay for it (around 50K). You want to be smart OP, learn from someone who knows more than you! That was not meant to be disrespectful, just good advice. If you ask anyone here they will probably tell you (if they are honest), that they did not get to where they are today without learning from someone. Happy New Year.
Ugh. I'm sure Steve Jobs felt the same way you do. Hopefully you won't make the same decisions he did, medically speaking...... Sometimes one does not know what they do not know. Kevin
OP, Please take my comments with the best of intentions. You mentioned that you see yourself as lower middle class. No different than the "hard lessons" you learned with credit, blowing $50K in savings to buy a Ferrari is one of a multitude of seemingly small, non-fatal life decisions that will gradually prevent you from climbing the economic ladder [*** deleted P&R ***] Before seriously considering a Ferrari purchase, consider making sure that both.... Your family is financially "set" in such a way that the present and future value and opportunity cost of your car hobby is proportionally meaningless or "in-the-noise" relative to the size of your estate. That you have also made a meaningful philanthropic impact in the lives of others less fortunate, far beyond the cost/value of the car If you first achieve these goals, I promise you'll truly enjoy your Ferrari(s) in a way that you never would otherwise. Do you want to be "serious" accomplished man with a beautiful Ferrari (or 8 like Carnut) in his garage(s)? ….or just another dime-a-dozen kid with a flashy car that he can barely afford?