Hello from Germany, Frustration! my car is already in its winter break. While walking through my garage this evening I noticed an oil puddle under the car. Strange color. Bright yellow. First I thought, the chinese hydraulics of my lift gave up. But it's worse. The oil is coming from the A/C-compressor at the shaft seal. It's a TCCI York knock off I purchased new, but which sat on my shelf for 5 years until I finally installed it. Could this long storage be the problem? I have rebuilt my whole system last winter and it worked perfectly all over the year. The system still has enough pressure for the magnetic clutch to engage. My question: Is it possible or does it make sense to replace the shaft seal myself? Where to get one? So far I haven't found a spare parts source. Any help is highly appreciated regarding this unwanted Christmas present. Best from Germany and thanks in advance Martin
Martin, just a thought, like you said, the seal probably got hard for sitting around too long, maybe if you use a lot it may soften up the seal and hopefully the leak will stop if not, there’s an AC oil with sealant mix with the oil that you can use, that may work and if it does, not sure how well it will work or how long it will last.
Mike, thanks. But it's a big amount of leaking oil. After cleaning the floor last night, this morning I found another puddle. Will have to pull the compressor and seal plate for diagnosis. At the moment I have the impression, that something went wrong during installation of the seal at the factory. Best from Germany Martin
I replaced the seal on my York compressor in late 2012 and the system still works but I do get a small amount of oil leakage that collects at the lowest portion of the compressor when the system is run. But it does not leak unless the system is operated. The slight leakage began late last year. After I installed the new seal purchased from NAPA, I ran the compressor on the workbench (after filling to proper level with oil) driven by an electric motor with no load on it for about 1/2 hour. For the second half hour I added load by constricting the compressor output to add backpressure. The reason for workbench running was to save effort in case the new seal did not work as it should. It's a PITA to install the compressor and I did not want to do it twice. Whether I was lucky or whether the low duty break in helped seal longevity I cannot say. Others on FChat do not recommend seal replacement.
This morning I took off the seal flange on my old original compressor I still have on my shelf, to look, whether it's a difficult task to replace the seal. I think with the proper tools and care, and having the downloaded WSM, it's doable. I am really curious, what happened there. The mysterious thing is, that the car rests since middle of November and suddenly began leaking seriously out of its rest. Three things are annoying me. First, that I had the compressor too long on the shelf. Would I have installed it immediately after my purchase I could still claim warranty. Second. I remember a weird drop of this yellow oil on my garage floor this summer. I wiped it up and didn't investigate.A quick look under the car on its wheels didn't show anything critical. But of course I could not see that coolant pipe, where the oil collected and eventually dripped on the floor. Third. It's the most problematic time of the year for getting any service or supply. I hope, that my workshop finds the time next week to extract my refrigerant. And after next week, the whole country rests till after 6th January. Something different. I am surprised to see, that you US-folks get that York (CCI) compressor seal kit almost "everywhere", while I find absolutely no source in Europe. If I don't find a source next week. Would anyone of you help me, purchasing the seal kit for me and ship to Germany? Payment via Paypal. Best Regards and thanks in advance Martin
Hi Martin, I'm unfamiliar with the rebuild kit you're looking for, but if you find an American source I can handle it for you.
Thanks John. If I google for 'CCI 488-25274', I can find a lot of American suppliers. Here is one example: https://www.zoro.com/tcci-mfg-llc-york-shaft-seal-kit-488-25274/i/G2485817/ Even Walmart lists it: https://www.walmart.com/ip/T-CCI-MFG-LLC-488-25274-York-Shaft-Seal-Kit-G2485817/51363743 Best from Germany and thanks again Martin
I think the Yorks was used on American models while the Sanden had a higher install rate in the EU cars.
The earlier cars had Aspera compressors, which were actually the Yorks, tagged italian. I replaced mine with a T/CCI York 210 knockoff. It's a big ****, what happened now. I hope, it's no quality issue, which applies to all T/CCI compressors. Otherwise I seriously think about putting back my original. But it would definitely need a new shaft seal as well, which again comes from T/CCI. :-/ Best Martin
Sorry to hear about your bad experience with the new compressor. I'm running the same replacement compressor in my QV and haven't had any issues so far after 3 years. I support your theory about failure from factory (I assume you added correct amount of oil during installation). I bought a seal kit last year for my BBi compressor from the company linked below. I bought the kit precautionary and have stocked it, so I cannot verify if it will fit your compressor. Have a look, maybe the seal set will fit your replacement compressor. Take extreme care with changing out the seal, it’s very easy to damage the carbon seal surfaces. Procedures and good alignment are the key words. Best regards Peter https://www.autospark.eu/shop/air-conditioning-heating/compressor-spare-parts/521-34603-frigair-bearing-seal-york-206-209-210/
Hi Peter, many thanks. This seal kit is exactly the correct one. Interesting, that they also supply the mating surface plate, what's important with an old compressor. The felt ring is missing. I installed my compressor without the felt ring, but don't think that this was the culprit. On the original Aspera there was no such dust protector anyway. And my system ran about 2 hrs. this year after the rebuild. Regarding the amount of oil. I hit the upper limit of 16oz. because the system was empty. I suspect the level was a bit higher than the shaft's centerline and this amount I lost now after 4 weeks standstill. The other sets are coming without the plate, but with felt ring and alignment tool. The latter I could manufacture myself. Anyway I will have a phone call with my A/C parts supplier. Unfortunately he is 800kms distant north in Berlin. Otherwise I would love to show him the mess. Best Regards Martin
Assuming your mechanical seal is similar to those fitted in pumps etc, when fitting the rotational part this should be tight enough on the shaft so it turns with the shaft ,but not too tight. Reason being that as the seal wears the rotational part must be free enough to self adjust and maintain the sealing. This part usually has a spring behind it to maintain the rotating face in contact with the static face. They can leak after a while if the face wears and it is stuck on the shaft- the interface between the static and rotational faces become a gap and hence you have a leak. If the faces are slightly damaged you can get the face back by using 1000 grade wet and dry paper and brasso metal polish- might seem extreme but it does work
I phoned with my compressor supplier, who runs an specialized A/C shop in Berlin this morning. This are getting clear. The problem probably was the long -and wrong- storage. Long means four years on the shelf. And wrong means the orientation of the shaft. If you want to store an empty, new compressor for such a long period, the shaft should be oriented upright down. Otherwise the mechanical seal can wander away from the front plate and loose the necessary pretension. This dynamic seal relies on internal pressure and it's not guaranteed, that after such a long time the seal gets repositioned correctly by the pressure. He told me, that he even experienced the issue on freshly delivered compressors, because noone knows, how long, and how they have been stored in the factory. He recommended to install the seal once more and pressurize the compressor on the bench filled with oil over some hours, the shaft oriented upright down. Experience tells, that if it keeps pressure and oil it will be fine. If not, I have to replace the seal. But in most cases a proper reinstall should help. Now I think about a method to pressurize the compressor on my bench. I have a pair of filler adaptors. Just need the right nipple to connect my air compressor. Other ideas? Best from Germany Martin
Be careful with compressed air. The POE oil is very hygroscopic. Make sure your air compressor has a drier in the line, otherwise much moisture will get into the system. Hose tail to 1/4" BSP female will work as an adaptor, but personally I would prefer pressure testing with Nitrogren or Freon.
Thanks for this heads-up. I have a dryer in the line of my compressed air system. At least I never had moisture problems when painting with my equipment. If I change the oil after the pressure test. Do you think, compressed air is still problematic then? I also have the equipment to evacuate the air inside the compressor after the test. Would this make sense? Best Martin
To be safe change the oil and evacuate to 1 bar vacuum for a few hours. Also, if possible, evacuate system from high and low side. Freon is so damned expensive these days you don’t want to be doing this more often than necessary. Are you using 134a with the original expansion valve?if so, is the cooling capacity ok? I’m still using R12 in mine, but my stash is dwindling! So I’ll be changing to 134a at some point.
A vacuum will not remove moisture from the oil; you might as well simply drain the compressor and do your maintenance. The install the compressor and vacuum/recharge the system as normal (which includes adding new oil during the charging cycle).
John, according to the York WSM you have to add a certain prefill of oil before installing it. I will use the old oil for the pressure test and change it afterwards. Freddie, I run the system on R134a and replaced the expansion valve when I rebuilt the system last year. I was quite happy with it during this summer. I'm in the southwest of Germany in the Rhine river valley. The warmest and most humid region of Germany, though not to compare with the climate conditions of some of our US-buddies. I cannot find a nipple with the right threads for making an air adaptor. So I just made one myself, which goes directly into the filler valve. 8mm hose tail on male M14x1.5. Happy again to have a lathe with thread turning function. Coincidentally having a long piece of brass bar stock in the correct wrench size also helped significantly Image Unavailable, Please Login Best from Germany Martin
Martin - sorry, yes quite correct. Compressor should be pre-primed with oil. I was thinking of any oil drained during the evac cycle, but I worded it fairly poorly.
Martin Before you pressure test, I suggest putting some UV dye in the system, you can then use a UV torch to highlight any leaks. Also, I don't recommend pressure testing the system with air as it introduces moisture in to the system. Professionals use Nitrogen, but if you have any MIG welding shield gas ( Argon/CO2 mix) in your workshop then that would be a good alternative to using air. M
Hmmm. I'm not quite sure, better said I cannot imagine, that this relatively small amount of pressurized air would do so much harm. Especially because I will change the oil after the test and evacuate a few hours. Be aware, that I don't plan to pressurize the whole system including hoses, evaporator, condenser, but just the compressor on the bench. The oil I use has the UV-dye mixed into it off the shelf. Best Regards Martin
If I don't find a source next week. Would anyone of you help me, purchasing the seal kit for me and ship to Germany? Payment via Paypal. Best Regards and thanks in advance Martin[/QUOTE] Martin, I will be your way the first week of March. I'll be more than happy to help.
if its an old York compressor like on my Range Rover, its probably got Rotalock valves. So you can shut the suction valve, run the compressor till it stops pumping, then turn it off and quickly shut the discharge valve. Thereby you save a lot of the refrigerant and don't need to worry about any contamination in other parts of the system. Fix the compressor leak, change the oil, vac out compressor (with rotalock valves shut) then firmly back seat them - that's important otherwise you will get leaks through the valve glands. . Run the system with some heat in the car and check the sight glass. Through the low pressure side you can then top up the system to a full sight glass on the receiver/drier as necessary. Finally, gas leak test the system.
