F430 Broken Manifold Stud | Page 2 | FerrariChat

F430 Broken Manifold Stud

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Metastable, Dec 5, 2019.

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  1. windsock

    windsock Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 29, 2006
    1,069

    I would still check the manifold for flatness with a straight edge, I would expect the manifold to be flat.
     
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  2. Metastable

    Metastable Formula Junior

    When putting in the new studs, do you torque the studs when installing them on the block, or do you just torque the brass nut on to the header?
     
  3. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    12,661
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    No you don't torque it. Studs do not need to be torqued, but need to be at the right depth. In some cases, studs have a non threaded section in the middle of the studs and you install them to that depth and stop. In critical applications, the factory gives an install spec where the part that sticks out has to meet a spec.

    For used / old applications like this, I use a dab of blue Loctite, an installation tool (or double nut if you don't have one), and wrench it on until the depth is met and remove the tool.

    The copper / steel nut will put the proper tightening force on the stud against the header flange. I just use my hand with a box wrench and make sure it is tight enough. There isn't any room in there for a torque wrench of any size. In this case, experience pays off.
     
  4. Metastable

    Metastable Formula Junior

    Hello - so.... got the passenger side OEM header off. The broken stud is the one closest to the front of the car. The water/oil pump is in the same general area. From the pictures below, you can see an “elbow” from the water pump that connects to one of the coolant hoses.

    The reason for this post is to find out if there is any issue with removing that coolant elbow, so there is more room to manoeuvre a drill to take out that broken stud. I would have to drain the coolant.... replace gasket #23 from the Ricambi website parts diagram:
    https://www.ricambiamerica.com/car-diagrams/ferrari/v6-v8/430-group/f430-05-08/water-oil-pump.html

    Any other downside I might be missing?

    On the pictures one can see the elbow getting in the way, plus the hydraulic clutch line (I lightly wrapped it in masking tape so my arm would not keep taking a beating from the glass fibres). Also, the discoloured gasket and block can be seen where the stud was sheared off.
     

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  5. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,835
    Isle of man- uk
    I
    If you send me an e mail address i will send you a drawing of a drill guide to drill this out. It will ensure the drill goes in straight
     
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  6. Reid

    Reid Karting

    May 18, 2018
    59
    Vancouver Canada
    Full Name:
    Reid Fox
    First thing to do is use a pick to scratch the end of the broken stud sometimes they will unscrew that easily, not likely on this application but the 10 seconds save you a lot of PITA if it does move. Do you really want to deal with the cooling system? A lot more work for an extra half inch of room you dont really need. If you plan on drilling it is critical to have it center punched and hold the drill straight off the stud. I usually just use a mig to build a head on it but it does require some skill to get it centered and not make too much of a mess. Put some sheet metal shields in there if you plan on that. Otherwise just drill , square it up from top and side as best as you can, there should be plenty of room for a drill. just take your time and keep it squared. Once you have a hole drilled it should come out very easily with a remover. The stud does not have to be tight just snug it in so that it wont come out with the nut next time it is removed.
     
  7. 020147

    020147 F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 12, 2006
    3,716
    Midwest
  8. Metastable

    Metastable Formula Junior

    #33 Metastable, Jun 12, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2020
    Hello .... update - got the broken stud out.

    First: Huge thank you to all that replyed and offered advice...... so here is how it went:

    There was no access to a drill press or high tech measuring tools. All tool used were hand tools.

    Measurements were done with calliper and ruler. LOTS of measurements were taken. The numbers provided below worked for me, please do not assume they are correct. Take your own measurements if doing something similar.

    The centre - centre distance of the studs is ~ 104 mm, for studs in the same row. The stud thread thickness was measured at 7.82 mm.

    The jig was made by cutting a Home Depot aluminum bar stock in 4 sections. Three holes were made on every aluminum, bar stock section two holes with a 5/16” drill bit (7.94 mm to fit studs on the block). The third hole was 5/64” (~2 mm), except for one bar stock section used to see if we were on target. That one was larger, and once the jig was ready, that hole was cut off to allow for cuttings to come out. Once done the jig was 4 sections of bar stock thick.

    NOTE: Two washers on each stud, were used under the jig when attached to the block. Otherwise the jig would not sit flat/flush.

    Before drilling the target was checked using the bar stock section with the bigger drill hole. I dabbed some whiteout. Then with each section of bar stock the 5/64” hole was checked with red paint.

    Then it was drill time. After drilling the 5/64” hole and next hole size with a reverse thread bit, the third bit was the one from the extraction kit shown in the pictures. Thanks to voicey I picked up something similar to the Snap-On set.

    Note: The measurement for an empty stud hole was ~22 mm, but stud depth is roughly 14-15mm. The drill bits were marked off with tape, so the drill depth was not exceeded.

    In the pictures below you can see the jig and right hand drill in action, the colouring of the stud surface to see if the jig was accurate, the little booger being extracted.

    Worth noting, Windsock mentioned the OEM header might be wrapped, and it was. Do yourself a favour and oblong the two stud holes on each end of the headers and remove your U shaped bracket from the exhaust section.

    Thanks again.
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  9. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    12,661
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    Holy crap. That is really great work.
     
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  10. Metastable

    Metastable Formula Junior

    BTW, I did not use a right hand drill.... it was a right ANGLE drill. :D Also Windsock mentioned the header might be warped and it was.... not wrapped.... must have been autocorrect on that one.
     

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