The 15 New Models by 2022 - What We Know | Page 21 | FerrariChat

The 15 New Models by 2022 - What We Know

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by Forza Scuderia, Feb 20, 2019.

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  1. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

    Jun 5, 2009
    7,280
    Le caylar (France)
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    mathieu Jeantet
    Probably a completely new V12 6.5 liters without any sort of hybridization
     
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  2. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

    Jun 5, 2009
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    mathieu Jeantet

    Maybe a 4.5 liters high reviving V12
    Sort of Ferrari T50 ?
    Who knows ..
     
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  3. Forza Scuderia

    Forza Scuderia Formula Junior

    Jan 13, 2015
    570
    I hope you’re right. I am 100% in favor of the next hyper car being NA V12 and I agree with you that it likely will be to a 90-95% confidence. That being said ... his comments raised some questions and concerns in my mind.

    1. Not looking to beat the 986 bhp of the SF 90 Stradale? How’s that? The LaFerrari was a light hybrid NA V12 with 949 bhp. Is someone telling me the next generation of that and produced a decade later won’t muster up another at least 50+ bhp? Or is someone telling me that it will be a pure unassisted NA V12? Because if that’s the case it’s going to be under 900 bhp no matter how much they fettle with the engine. Is that really what we are to believe ... that this next car’s motive power will be a step DOWN from the LaFerrari? Either way what is the marketing pitch for a $2-million numbered halo car that has LESS power than a standard production $500k car regardless of lap times and power to weight ratio? Something doesn’t add up here...

    2. This is extremely unlikely but ... could his comments about not wanting to exceed SF 90 Stradale output and instead focus on lightweight and maneuverability point toward the next halo car using a version of the SF 90 Stradale V-8 TT power plant?
    Before anyone’s head explodes I acknowledge this is a remote possibility at best but it cannot be fully discounted. Nowhere is it written in stone that Ferrari’s hyper car must always be a V12 in the future just because it has been in the past. The hyper car is not billed as the top V12 in Ferrari’s lineup. The hyper car’s mission is to showcase future technologies that will trickle down to future models. Ferrari could decide going forward that doesn’t necessarily entail a V12 in its technology showcase car. Also if you want to make a compact lightweight car a TT V8 is generally advantageous over a big displacement V12 lump.

    3. Alternatively do his comments suggest a new generation small displacement ( 4.0 to 5.0 liter ) V12 that is assisted with either a light hybrid or forced induction or fuel cell? If Ferrari wants to showcase future regular model direction that would make more sense if they want to keep selling V12s. As much as I hope the answer is ‘yes’ to this question ... is it realistic to expect that 10 years from now Ferrari still offers a giant 6.5 liter NA unassisted V12 in ANY of its cars other than extremely limited production Icona pieces?

    4. The other, and in many ways, more likely scenario is that this is just politically correct misdirection where they try and talk down any talk of horsepower wars and instead focus the conversation toward ‘lightweight and compact’ like they did with the Millechilli Concept ... before giving the world the fire breathing LaFerrari! Hopefully what we will get is an even more powerful and more bad ass LaFerrari with a stonking 6.5 liter V12 + Tech powerplant stepping out with over 1,000 bhp at the rear wheels. Forza Ferrari!
     
  4. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

    Jun 5, 2009
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    mathieu Jeantet
    Interesting
    Laferrari weights 1550-1580kgs in real life
    We could assume a car weighting 1050-1100kgs with fluids and powered by a high revving V12 (850 hp ) should be a lot better.
    No question about that
     
  5. Forza Scuderia

    Forza Scuderia Formula Junior

    Jan 13, 2015
    570
    That would be the dream scenario.
    However I don’t think realistically they can get the weight down quite that low with modern crash safety and equipment requirements. If they produced a real world fueled curb weight of even 1,250 to 1,300kg that would be a miraculous feat of engineering and the absolute best case scenario. I still think you see a car within 3 to 5 % the dimensions and weight of the LaFerrari and over 1,000 bhp when all is said and done.
     
  6. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

    Jun 5, 2009
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    mathieu Jeantet
    Take a look to the Gordon Murray interview in the British car section.
    In fact this is not a technical or regulation problem .
    It's a marketing choice.
    Newey and Murray decided to create a small car with huge weights benefits.
    This is a virtuous cycle.
    I wonder if Ferrari will follow the same path
     
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  7. Forza Scuderia

    Forza Scuderia Formula Junior

    Jan 13, 2015
    570
    Yeah I knew somebody was going to play devil’s advocate and cite the new Gordon Murray car and the Valkyrie. These extreme exercises in minimalism appeal to a narrow group of zealots and the inevitable cost is a cabin you have to be poured into.
    Sure, the Valkyrie looks amazing from the outside and the performance envelope is bonkers but who would honestly want to spend more than say 15 minutes inside that cabin except on a track and even then? Claustrophobic does not begin to describe that cabin...
    One thing Ferrari has been stealthily genius at is designing their cabins to feel relatively spacious compared to even Aventadors and MacLarens. Ferrari knows it’s customer base well and they know they may not want to have to use The Jaws of Life to get out of their car every time they go to lunch in Mayfair. So yes I stick with the prediction that the new hyper car will be much closer in concept, size and weight to the LaFerrari than these extreme ‘zen of low weight’ fetish cars despite the rhetoric currently being served up by Maranello.
     
  8. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

    Jun 5, 2009
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    mathieu Jeantet
    You are absolutely right about the Valkyrie
    T50 seems a lot more usable
    Guess 1250 kgs with fluids for the next Ferrari hypercar should be a tremendous achievement.
     
  9. George330

    George330 Formula 3

    Oct 19, 2009
    1,342
    Switzerland
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    George
    I can imagine a lightweight V12 with a 9000 rpm redline, 850hp, clever aero and 1200kgs of weight, totally pared down and devoid of fripperies. A modern F50. Great handling even though it will not produce the 0-60 of a 4wd or electrically assisted supercar.
    I would give anything to see a car like that from Ferrari. THAT would be the halo car to end all halo cars and the greatest Ferrari in 30 years.


    Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat
     
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  10. Elmediterraneooo

    Sep 25, 2019
    6
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    Elmediterraneooo
    We already know what we will have in 2020 :
    - The TDF-like version of the 812.
    - SF90 Spider
    - Portofino with the "Handling" pack.

    My humble predictions for 2021/2022/2023 :
    - Next Portofino : based on the Roma
    - Purosangue : V8 +700 PS above the Lamborghini Urus, replacing the GTC4Lusso as the family 4 seater model
    - Next hypercar : ultra lightweight like the Aston Martin Valkyrie mid-engined NA V12 1000 PS without hybrid (LaFerrari's V12 was 800 PS + electric 163 PS)
    - F8's replacement : based on the SF90's modern platform, mid-engined V6 Hybrid 750/800 PS
    - 812's replacement : new front-engine platform (Roma, Purosangue, next Portofino) 850/900 PS NA V12.
     
  11. Rossocorsa1

    Rossocorsa1 F1 Veteran

    May 14, 2017
    6,200
    What do we know is for certain with the ICONA line?
     
  12. Forza Scuderia

    Forza Scuderia Formula Junior

    Jan 13, 2015
    570
    It’s a beautiful dream but keep dreaming. For one thing ... isn’t what you just described ... a Ferrari Enzo? And, once again, the product mission of the Ferrari hyper car is to showcase new technologies that will trickle down to regular production models ... not to fulfill the longings of ‘highest possible revving V12 crammed into lightest and tightest simplest possible envelope’ fetishists. For those afflicted, the new Gordon Murray car is being built specifically to cater to your fevered cravings and don’t forget the return to the good old days manual slushbox. The line forms to the left and it won’t even cost any more than the Ferrari halo car. It’s very limited production will also make it a great collector car what more could you want because of course your car is also not allowed to depreciate.
    We won’t see a car like this from Ferrari. Ever. It’s a pipe dream. And people need to stop pining for it to happen. Because what would be the new technologies on such a car that would allow Ferrari to showcase its technological prowess or to filter down to the rest of the regular production line? Would a company that has spent vast resources developing dozens of traction control technologies and driver aids suddenly drop them all in its halo example of the ultimate Ferrari? Would Ferrari a multi-billion dollar company with ‘technological innovation’ as one of its 3 major brand pillars turn back the hands of time like Gordon Murray can with his 100 car run? Anyone can make a minimalist lightweight carbon tub with a tight skin and shoehorn a crated 12 cylinder mill into it. Let’s be real. Ferrari is never going to do that. For precisely that reason. Because anyone can do that. Ferrari will keep loading its cars with more and more technology because that’s what other companies can’t do as well as they can. The next hyper car will not be a stripped out 1,000 kilo car. At best this new car will be 100 kilos lighter than the LaFerrari and its motor will probably be assisted by a new ‘best of all worlds’ next generation hybrid technology package that adds 50 mile or so electric only cruising range while being significantly lighter than the hybrid system deployed in the SF 90 Stradale. I think all this posturing about ‘we don’t see a hybrid V12 because it would be too heavy’ sets up Ferrari to be the hero to their fan base when they pull back the curtain and reveal the ultimate magic trick... a super lightweight full hybrid system that can be used even for V12s. ALL cars are going to be REQUIRED to have some electric only cruising range or they are going to be restricted from major city centers and others desirable areas. That’s where trends are going. The automakers have no choice but to get out in front of that. I predict an ultra lightweight hybrid package capable of decent ( perhaps 50 miles or more ) electric only cruising range along with SOME basic self driving capability are to be the quantum leap technologies showcased in this new halo car.
     
  13. Ferrari 308 GTB

    Ferrari 308 GTB F1 Veteran

    Feb 21, 2015
    7,716
    Tropical
    Ahh ok ...is Christmas also cancelled?:(
     
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  14. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

    Jun 5, 2009
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    Very realistic
    But next portofino will be revealed after 2022
    And 812's replacement should be rear mid engine
     
  15. Elmediterraneooo

    Sep 25, 2019
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    Elmediterraneooo
    Next Portofino after 2022 ?
    The current Portofino is technically an old car, it's the 3rd evolution of the old 2008 California, coming after the 2014 California T.
    The Roma represents an all-new generation of a V8 only GT because the GTC4Lusso will be replaced by the Purosangue.
    So it makes sense to see a new Portofino as the new Roma's convertible sooner than you're expect it.

    812's replacement mid-engine ?
    That's also what I would love to see as the perfect competitor for the Lamborghini Aventador.
    But at Ferrari, putting a V12 in a rear mid-engine configuration is exclusive to the limited edition hypercars, and that coincides with the rumours about the future hypercar not being more powerful than the SF90 but much lighter, track-focused, non-hybrid purely V12 like an Aston Martin Valkyrie.
    The SF90 is already the mid-engine flagship that you're talking about, except that's a Hybrid V8 and not a V12.
    Ferrari already told that they're opening a new market segment with that mid-engine model above the 488/F8's segment.
    That's why the SF90 is a 1000 PS Hybrid V8, and the model that will replace the F8 will be technically, a SF90's platform and hybrid system, with a V6 engine.
     
  16. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

    Jun 5, 2009
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    mathieu Jeantet
    We are just speculating there but the portofino is based on the new modular platform not the California's one
     
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  17. day355

    day355 Formula 3

    Jun 25, 2006
    2,058
    :D
    Ferrari is buildind heavy and tech cars just because new customers are buying this !
    Enthusiasts want a Gordon Murray s car, show men want the most powerful and heavy Ferrari badge s car
     
  18. Elisesko

    Elisesko Karting
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 27, 2016
    210
    Not just the Murray car. I'm sure I've seen other discussions on this car but this was the first article that pulled up.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.roadandtrack.com/car-shows/geneva-auto-show/amp26640246/pagani-c10-manual-v-12-geneva-2019/

    I'm not so sure their 70% of customer base asking for it isn't that far off of Ferrari's. Saying it a fringe base wanting such a creation may be a little bit of a stretch. But then again, asking for and scratching checks for sometimes are two different things.
     
  19. Forza Scuderia

    Forza Scuderia Formula Junior

    Jan 13, 2015
    570

    You say it’s not fringe but what is 70% of 40 cars per year. It’s 28 cars. 28 people. I rest my case.
     
  20. magf12

    magf12 Rookie

    Apr 27, 2013
    5
    From what I hear it seems like the 812 which currently serves as a sport GT will be replaced by two different cars:
    1. mid engine Sport car built on the SF90 platform and sitting above the 488/F8
    2. Front engine GT car built on the modular Roma platform & likely to have a V8 hybrid power train.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  21. Elisesko

    Elisesko Karting
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    Jan 27, 2016
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    That's doesn't even make sense.
     
  22. Whipcity76

    Whipcity76 Karting
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    May 16, 2015
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    Hugh
    This is incredible. My mind is about to implode with all this information. About everything forecasted has come to fruition up to this point. Do the dealers have access to this information? Whenever I have enquired at my dealership about any future plans by the factory all I get is “deer in the headlights”. Some of the really hot, limited production prospects will not trickle down to our level unless you become one of the chosen few.
     
  23. Forza Scuderia

    Forza Scuderia Formula Junior

    Jan 13, 2015
    570
    The member I was replying to in the quote of mine which you are now replying to ... was referencing an article in Road & Track citing how 70% of Pagani owners express interest in a stick shift gated manual gear box and therefore that desire wasn’t ‘fringe’ and that Ferrari should pay close attention.
    I was pointing out that Pagani only builds a whopping 40 cars per year so even 70% is a tiny number of customers ... 28. Ferrari isn’t going backwards. You might ... might ... get them to put a gated stick shift back in a car but it’s going to be a very limited throwback run likely from the Icona series which would mean its a seven figure car if they ever make it.
    And part of their PR could read ‘For those customers who long for the romance and elegance of a gated manual shift experience ... now please wire $1.7-million to your local dealer to secure an allocation’
     
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  24. Zadoc Rb Gibbs

    Sep 3, 2019
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    Zadoc Rb Gibbs
    #524 Zadoc Rb Gibbs, Dec 27, 2019
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 27, 2019
     
  25. Elisesko

    Elisesko Karting
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    Jan 27, 2016
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    Pretty sure I'm the same member who posted the article. I offered an instance of 70% of presumably high end car purchasers indicating a desire for something you seemed to think was only a fringe base. Then rested your case by saying 70% of a small number is a small number. That is the nonsensical bit. While you can get better data from a larger sample size, that doesn't mean all 10k of Ferrari's annual production customers need to be asked if they would want a certain product or feature. Explaining the ins and outs of math was not my desire. If that's the starting point of this debate, I'll pass.

    A more interesting case resting point would have been the last time a manual was offered for sale by Ferrari, the take rate was horrendous. 90% of F430 check writers opted not to purchase the old technology. 599 and Cali were also not good to the argument. But perhaps, something has changed in the last 10-15 years and the fringe is not as fringe (if it ever was...people are known to spec their cars for the next guy in the Ferrari world after all). You may be right, it is a looney fringe that wants to be slower. However, ignoring all of the small manufacturers meeting the needs of customers writing 3 million dollar checks doesn't sound wise or in the best interest of the stockholders. It's only Murray. It's only Pagani. It's all fringe. No one wants that. Guess we will see if they do pay attention.
     
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