Sure, bud. To be honest I think you’re completely and totally full of ****. I’ve watched you slag off TR/512 values and individual cars for months and you haven’t indicated you’re actually in the market for anything. Your prior posts maligning FoSV after you crashed your FF under the premise they somehow overcharged you when the reality was they wouldn’t artificially inflate the estimate so you could cash in on insurance and have an indy fix the car for less (pocketing the delta) only reenforces my suspicion about your posts’ integrity.
The last 512 on tr belonged to one of the member here and he had it for 215, then 190, then 175 at autosportdesign. He said BAT forced him into a low reserve but he refused so car was kept. None or not many met reserve lately. This one seemed nice, surprised it went for that “low” I mean it still is 155k at the door but lots of car for the money Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
JAMi- Just an FYI that i’ve personally been in touch with Nat many times over the past few months discussing his desire to buy a 512TR. His desire to own one is real. But his desire to but one at a “non-BS / fair price” is even more real. $150k for today’s BAT car would’ve met the price objective for him I am guessing. As a result that is why he is kicking himself. Plus, having a FF currently sitting in his garage, most likely reduced his urgency to buy a 512 TR today.
I get it, but it seems counter to what Booker told us was allowed. The comment was directed at things that NatKD has said in the past. He didn't call him a name. Maybe Booker can clear up his guide.
What Booker said is you can say a specific comment is "stupid". We all have moments of brain fade or misperception, and saying a post or comment is stupid, doesn't necessarily denigrate another user. That may have been a revelation to some here, but it wasn't new guidance as moderation has identified that distinction for a while, we simply don't explicate it very often as we don't like giving out cheatsheets on "how to be rude and get away with it on Fchat". However, the comment cited above, was more personal as it attacks another user's integrity or intentions based on the poster's opinion of what NKCB69 might intend. If in fact the poster had referenced previous posts that showed that NKCB69 had contradicted himself, then he could call NKCB69 a liar or (marginally) "full of ****" as that would be fact based. But simply having suspicions as to what another user's inaction might mean doesn't meet that threshold. In other words, if you're going to call someone a liar, be able to prove it from facts in evidence. Otherwise, it's your opinion and you should be more circumspect/courteous.
At the end of the day someone got a great car at a great price today on BAT. I didn’t bid on it but I have been , since i sold my TR in 18 to feralc, I been looking to upgrade to a 512TR but have not found the one for me yet. I enjoy the passion of the TR cars and I hope all prospective buyers or owners enjoy the car and ownership just as much as I loved mine Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I believe he got a good deal on the car because I think you would be hard pressed to find one with low mileage and condition for less than that. That’s about the bottom for the car right now. Obviously higher mileage and poorer condition then you could expect to pay less. But you definetly have to wait to get one at this price. You have to have a lot of patience. One problem I see is if you as the buyer have any specific requirements such as you want a black one. You are very limited on what’s available to buy and that’s a problem. That’s why if it were me buying I would give myself up to 170-180k to find the right car- color, mileage, condition etc. I don’t want to be limited to just one car. If that makes sense. At the end of the day it still comes down to what the car is also worth to you as the buyer. I really liked the red on black car at CNC motors. Would love to have that car.
Makes total sense; I wanted to limit at 150k because I want 20-30k allowed in case something is wrong. I think in my time with the TR I had like 6/7k a year of various Bill and that’s with no diff and major so one can never be too cautious repair wise in my opinion ... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yeah, that’s probably wise as you have to plan for any services the car may need. Mine has been rock solid. Very good cars in my opinion but you still have to do the maintenance.
I donno.....I don't think this is a good strategy. How long have you been hunting? All the cars are pretty well known...the good, the bad and the ugly. This isn't like buying a 458 which are a dime a dozen and plenty in all sorts of condition. The Testarossa series including the 512 tr are old and it's going to be a trade off. Time capsule in perfect condition....mechanical nightmare. A car with slightly higher miles and a major service under it's belt will not be in concours but mechanically sound. If you see something desirable but at a premium, you're going to have to bite the bullet and go with it.....or wait for a recession. I think you need to pick your poison and go with it. Tick...tick...tick...life is passing by. Shamile Freeze....Miami Vice! Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
U are right! I wouldn’t and could not have said it better. At some point got to bite the bullet! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
^^^THIS^^^ A good 512 TR all in is going to be $175K once sorted at a minimum. $200K is where the sorted cars start at these days. One just sold via private treaty in Las Vegas right at $200K. The car was owned by a known collector and needs absolutely nothing. The buyer got a great deal on a great car. Condition beats low mileage every day for me. You buy the car, not the story. People that window shop for years waiting for a deal lose out every time. Find the best car you can afford and budget for what it will take to make it great. Talking about cars and owning them are two different things. Bottom feeding on 25+ year-old cars is the completely wrong approach unless you are willing to put in a lot of time and effort into sweat equity.
I don’t disagree with you Boke. That being said ; I think 150k in the current market gets you a good car. I had the same approach when I Bought the Tr: for me I wanted it under 25k, red, serviced. There was that TR for 149k I wanted but thought was overpriced; I waited. 149k became 139, then 129, then 119k, 109 I made an offer and got the car. It was what I had hoped for overall and when I sold it I didn’t lose money and feralc, not me, got 2 concours win out of it. For the 512 well it’s starting to kind of look the same. I think it’s a buyers market and when I started looking 150k didn’t seem it would get me there , maybe it won’t , but seems possible. I totally understand your stance and opinion though. It makes total sense. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You are correct. Mine is within that range once you add in the cost to get the car current with new tires, major service completed etc. We do see a wide range on the prices. That’s why if someone says all the 512s are within a narrow range they would be incorrect. So many factors come into play for each car. Some may have believed the car on bat would sell for 140k no way unless the seller just wanted to let it go. That appeared to be a pretty decent car. That’s why I put a large range on the cars 150k-180k for good quality cars. And yes some spectacular cars will move into the 200s. I must say I really appreciate the different perspectives here. Everyone has a little different take on it and I agree with most perspectives. I can see both sides of the argument on price. But some have no clue.
Thanks, Ryan. Using the 512 TR that just sold as an example here is the way I see it and how I would have proceeded. If one where actually "In The Market" they may be wise to follow my process If I wanted that car, I would have flown to Denver, rented a car, and spent the night on giving it a once over. I don't know if the seller would let me take it somewhere for a proper PPI. I don't buy older Ferraris without a once over by someone I trust. All that would run a few grand by the time it was all over. A smart few grand spent to cover my ass going in. If I don't like the car, I am out of the travel and PPI expenses only. We don't know what the high bidder actually proxy bid for the car. If I bid, I would have to exceed his high bid by at least $1k from what I can tell by the bidding increments. Then let's say I got the car for a little more than it sold for. Then I have to pay for the fees and shipping. More money. The next stop for a 512 TR for me would be Patrick Ottis or Brian Crall for a major and whatever else the car needs. While I am there, I might as well upgrade the transaxle. By now, some time has gone by, and additional money has been invested in the car. Yada, Yada, Yada, you know the rest of the story because you have been through it yourself. All of these cars MUST be evaluated individually. Ferrari Market Letter or auction results are nothing more than historical pricing guidelines. They report the markets they follow but are far from the be-all, end-all of what any car is worth. My current primary collector car interest is early SWB "Long Hood' Porsche 911s. The good cars are all selling for over $200K. Buying a needy car is about the worst decision a collecter can make, but I see it happen all the time. A $150K car will cost more than a $200k car every time on early Porsches. As always, YMMV. I am still waiting to pick up an $800K low mileage well-sorted F40. Please let me know if you hear of any. The bottom line is, "Don't talk about it. Be about it."
Very nicely stated. I would have proceeded exactly as you said if I were bidding on that car. I see you are a well seasoned collector car buyer. You have my respect. Your process for buying a 512 is a good roadmap for someone to follow. By the way I love the old 911s. I love the 914-6s use to have one. Regret selling. I will keep my eyes open if I come across an F40 for sale. Thanks for your perspective!
Thanks again, Ryan. I was lucky enough to grow up in Porsche legend, Chuck Stoddard's garage, and shop. The early 911S 2.0 Liter is the sweet spot for me. 80 mph may as well be 180mph when you are on the road in one. If my neighbor didn't buy a new Giallo 365 GTB/4 back in the day, I would have never looked at Ferraris at all. I still have a couple of Ferraris in my garage. A vintage 911 would be a great companion to your 512 TR!!! Chuck beat in my head to find the best car I could afford and then save up some more cash to buy a good one. That always stuck with me. Cheers, Marc Image Unavailable, Please Login
Yes , very often, 4 in the shop now! Sorry for your poor experiences, are they current, or from 10+ years ago? ( serious question ) Very happy to offer FCA / FC members discounts and benefits of being a client. Not to mention, getting them closer to their certificates. ( smiling ) 99% of what comes in to us is addressed by us, we do at times go outside the network for help. James has been an amazing asset to the Ferrari community and we have extended our expertise to James and his team on numerous occasions as well. We have a fantastic mutually beneficial relationship here in DFW! ( Ferrari owners win both ways ) We keep them here in house. I have a couple Ferrari trained technicians who were working on them when they were new , still on the team. They , along with Ferrari NA/SpA , have been very helpful in passing on their knowledge to the " newer " generation of technicians. During each " trainee " initial 18 month initiation period , large amounts of history are passed on. Even FNA offers refresher classes annually. James knows his stuff, his team is also highly experienced and I would not hesitate to work with them as an option to the Dealership as needed. Ah, the joys of deferred maintenance or repairs ... $7k- $10k should be the norm IMO , but add in neglected repairs and $27k isn't so unreasonable. FWIW, we have different variations of the TR come through, many from out of state, that have been parked for many many years , asking prices for those are normally much lower , as-is kinda deals. Question I am asked often is that if they put X into repairs how much will that increase the value of their car. I read value to mean asking price... What do you all think? Does a $10k service increase the value of the car $10k ? S
