348 - Brake Squeal Issue... Tearing my Hair Out!!! | Page 3 | FerrariChat

348 Brake Squeal Issue... Tearing my Hair Out!!!

Discussion in '348/355' started by Koenig1, Dec 8, 2019.

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  1. Koenig1

    Koenig1 Formula Junior

    Aug 25, 2016
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    Ottawa ON
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    Sandy
    Excellent, Keep going, this looks easy to setup....!
     
  2. 348Jeff

    348Jeff Formula 3

    Oct 25, 2011
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    Removing the caliper bolts (should of done brake pipe first)





     
  3. 348Jeff

    348Jeff Formula 3

    Oct 25, 2011
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    Jeff
    Hydraulic connection pipe removal...







     
  4. 348Jeff

    348Jeff Formula 3

    Oct 25, 2011
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    Track for pads Removal

     
  5. 348Jeff

    348Jeff Formula 3

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    #55 348Jeff, Jan 5, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2020
    I sort of gave up making videos so here's a few pics I took just for general interest...

    My first attempt at removing the tracks was just by using an allan key but they just seemed to strip/very difficult to get a purchase on them so it was slowly dawning on me I was going to have to split the caliper :-(

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    With the caliper split in 2 it became much easier - I managed to remove 2 of the allan bolts, however the other 2 were stuck fast so had to get the help of a friendly mechanic :)

    The first one came out by bashing an oversized orx into it then removing. However the 2nd one required welding a bolt to it and screw it out. Just need to find replacement bolts now - hopefully made of something more substantial!

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    Tracks were cleaned up with grit paper and a flapper

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    Tracks were put in a vice to straighten them - I'm guessing they were deformed due to corrosion pushing them upwards

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    There was actually more corrosion on the caliper than I was expecting and this is what I think causes all the problems.

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  6. 348Jeff

    348Jeff Formula 3

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    #56 348Jeff, Jan 5, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2020
    All looking a bit grim. As you would expect the top tracks were less corroded/in better condition than the bottom 2 where and the inboard tracks were worse than the outboard.

    I used a combination of a razor blade to scrape the corrosion off followed by a paint removing wheel (so as not to damage the caliper) and finally a piece of grit paper wrapped around a wide ice scream stick (hoping to keep it all flat) and "filed" it until the corrosion was gone.

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    All done - it was a bit of an iterative process of rubbing it down, clean, reassemble plates and try the pad again until it felt the same as the newer caliper.

    If I was serious about reusing this caliper I'd paint it with a light coat of something to inhibit the corrosion as I'm sure it wouldnt be too log before it comes back again.

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  7. 348Jeff

    348Jeff Formula 3

    Oct 25, 2011
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    Popping the pistons....



    I did have a video of popping the other pistion but for some reason it wont play :-(

    Anyway it's the same routine but just put a spanner or something across the piston that pops out easily and G-clamp it so it stays in place and repeat,,,,this time the other piston will pop out. Again it was in good condition so pretty 100% certain that the pistons weren't causing the problem and it is all down to the pad being jammed between the tracks.

    Any thoughts....????? (on the problem not my poor camera work! LOL)
     
  8. Koenig1

    Koenig1 Formula Junior

    Aug 25, 2016
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    Sandy
    Wow, quite the job! My only thought with mine is that the pads slide in quite easily, and that would be for all 3 sets of different manufacturers??? Sure does clean up the framework for the pads. When I get back into it, I'll inspect much more thoroughly, and have a go at it. Unfortunately, I'm down in Florida(with the car) but don't have the tools and facilities, without being a new 'Harbor Freight'(cheap tool store) poster boy, until I return home in the Spring. Thanks for all your hard work. Let us know the long term results.
     
  9. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Veteran
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    Those face of the pistons look damaged, certainly not square? Wonder if that's typical.
     
  10. 348Jeff

    348Jeff Formula 3

    Oct 25, 2011
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    Do the pads just slide in and out feeling snug or do they feel loose? On both the low mileage caliper and the "fixed" one there is plenty of play in there.

    It may well be worth trying to use compressed air to push the pistons out and see if they push out easily or if you take the pads out and replace with something just the thickness of the backing pads (or a totally worn pair of pads) you would be able to test the calipers on the car and see if the pistons come out properly. (Try and avoid popping the pistons out completely as they will unseat the dust seals (bellows) and they are not easy to put back on)

    I'm afraid I did that attempting to unjam them quite some time ago using tyre levers/screwdriver - my bad :-( Learn from my mistake and don't do that!!!

    Incidentially, whilst looking fro replaeent steel pistond to answer the above I noticed this link which shows not only replacement pistons but the fabled seals as well!!! Never heard of the site before and dont know whether its up-to-date etc but Ill enquire with them.

    Personally , I think the price is too high as you can buy a good Brembo caliper off ebay for about the same price and bellows are readily avilabale for them so unecomical in my view???

    http://www.dinoparts.eu/EN/ferrari-348-ts/brakes/brake-pistons/
     
  11. QSA

    QSA Formula Junior
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    Jun 3, 2011
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    Quinn
    Sorry to derail, but there is conflicting info on this. Did the 355 calipers line up centered, where a 355 rotor would work?
     
  12. A348W

    A348W Formula 3

    Jun 28, 2017
    1,741
    North Wiltshire, UK
    I would definitely be replacing those pistons, they can not be helping anything.

    And if you are doing that you might as well get them completely overhauled and powder coated! (Whilst you are there...!!!!)
     
  13. 348Jeff

    348Jeff Formula 3

    Oct 25, 2011
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    TBH it's not worth doing - I replaced the caliper with a brand new one - was only pulling it apart to demonstrate what causes the squeak.
     
  14. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie
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    Is your question about the front or the rear calipers?
     
  15. QSA

    QSA Formula Junior
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    Front.
     
  16. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie
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    I didn't try the 355 front calipers on my 348 because I found out that the 355 front discs are thicker than the 348's (28 vs. 24 mm) so I do not know whether the 355 caliper, when bolted to the 348, is wider symmetrically (by 2 mm on each side) or otherwise.
     
  17. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Veteran
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    #67 Ferrarium, Jan 6, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2020
    Jeff is correct, the cost to have teeves calipers rebuilt and painted (assuming you don't need pistons, if you do it's doubly unfortunate and costly) is more than the used brembo's cost, brembos can be maintained going forward cheaply as well. Something to consider. Teeves parts will get harder and harder to find and used 348 brembo supplies will dwindle.

    Unless your maintaining originality or have a concourse car, then a decision time for anyone looking to solve brake issues.

    Sent using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  18. Koenig1

    Koenig1 Formula Junior

    Aug 25, 2016
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    Jeff, thanks for all your work. I'm still 'on hold' waiting for this set of OEM pads to come in. Should they produce the same squeal, I'll throw in the towel and purchase some decent used Brembo front calipers. Before I install the last set of pads, I'm going to give the ATE's a really good cleaning. I don't expect the OEMs to arrive for another 2 weeks or so, but will report back on my findings. Funny, the installed Porterfields are making less & less noise... go figure!
     
  19. 348Jeff

    348Jeff Formula 3

    Oct 25, 2011
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    Your welcome and I've learnt a lot myself too :)

    I've taken more phtos/been experimenting in the meantime so Ill post them up in due course.

    Maybe if the porterfields are a harder pad they maybe cutting into your disk and "refurbing" it for you???!!!

    I'm still pretty sure that making sure the pads move freely in the tracks and testing your pistons in and out movement freely is the way forward if you want to stay original
     
  20. Koenig1

    Koenig1 Formula Junior

    Aug 25, 2016
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    Anyone know the size and pitch of the inlet pipe nut to the ATE calipers. Looking to plug my caliper feeds before draining the Master reservoir. thanks in advance...
     
  21. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie
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  22. Koenig1

    Koenig1 Formula Junior

    Aug 25, 2016
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    Miro, thanks so much!
     
  23. Koenig1

    Koenig1 Formula Junior

    Aug 25, 2016
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    Well, lo & behold.... there is a seal & dust boot kit for the 348 ATE caliper.... as well as pistons!!!!
    http://www.dinoparts.eu/EN/ferrari-348-ts/brakes/brake-pistons/kit-to-overhaul-brake-caliper.html
    http://www.dinoparts.eu/EN/ferrari-348-ts/brakes/brake-pistons/
    Typically, just after purchasing some Brembo calipers to replace my front ATEs, do I find this kit! Arghh! Anyway, wrote the company asking whether this kit was for Brembo or ATE....? Here's his reply...
    "the repair kit is only for ATE calipers.
    Kind regards
    Alfredo"
    so, for those that are still looking, this may be an answer.... although, they want $$$ for some small bits of rubber. Warning, I know there were others that purchased lots of seal sets only to be disappointed that they don't fit. Unfortunately I don't have any idea if this was one of the shops... Good Luck!

    On another note, does anyone have the Rebuild kit part # for the 348 Brembos's???
     
  24. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie
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    It seems that the kits for Brembos are only available from Zeckhousen. They don't go by part number, just by piston diameter (as all Brembos seem to use the same seals and boots for a given piston diameter). You will need 4 sets of 40 mm and 4 sets of 36 mm. Each set is per one caliper per piston diameter, 2 seals and 2 boots. I bought the sets 5 years ago and they cost a total of $ 280 excluding shipping.
     
  25. 348Jeff

    348Jeff Formula 3

    Oct 25, 2011
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    The frustrating thing is these seal kits are aftermarket (I asked him) so we need a volunteer to buy a set then check the numbers!!! ;-')

    I've done some more research and more photos but not had a chance to post up the results.

    If you look under 355 as the model you can a set of 355 bremvbo seals which is what I did to find out whey they dont fit the ate calipers (pistons are same diameter) but (I cat get my head round this) the brembo seals dont have as much stretch forward/backward movement in them as my oroginal ATEs so I imagine they would pop off if you let your pads wear low?????
     

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