Hello all, I wonder if someone can help. My F430 blew a small hose near the expansion tank last week, and I lost all the coolant. I've refilled with water to establish what/where the leak was. With the split pipe being high up and close to the expansion tank, much of the cooling system is now full of pure water. I'm replacing the pipe this weekend and so will then need to empty and refill the system with a coolant/water mix. To drain it, I'll remove the radiator plugs on each side, which I think are located under the front engine cover ? Some have mentioned that they snap off and should be replaced each time. Is this likely to happen or is it just a recommendation ? In refilling it, I don't have a vacuum kit and I can't find a local garage who does (I've never heard of one). In the past with other cars, I've always just run the engine until with the expansion cap off. This way any trapped air comes to the surface of the expansion tank. Is there any reason why I couldn't just do this on the F430 or is it risky / does the design not allow this to work ? Compared with other engines, the cooling system is spread quite far rather than being in one localised 'block' of engine, so this might be why I guess ? thanks in advance. David
Yes, remove the front undertray and drain both radiators. My plugs have never snapped off. Replace the O-ring on the plugs, if they look bad. Carefully use compressed air in the expansion tank to get more coolant out of the system. You won't get all of it out through the radiators, just about 50-60%. Refill with vacuum kit, warm up the engine, then do another coolant change, to make sure most of the old coolant has been replaced. Use the correct type of coolant. Ferrari recommends "50% solution of SHELL GLYCOSHELL CONCENTRATE or 50% solution of CARIX PREMIUM G48 CONCENTRATE". Glycoshell is hard to find, even for Ferrari dealerships. Ferrari dealership in Sweden is using CARIX G48 today, but any G48 approved type of coolant will do. I use BASF Glysantin G48, one of the few coolants that are "Ferrari approved" for the F430. Available in Europe. In USA, there is Valvoline Zerex G48, you can get it off Ebay. "Valvoline ZEREX G48® is an official GLYSANTIN® based premium coolant" Note that none of the F430 Ferrari approved coolants contains nitrite. Wait and get a vacuum kit off ebay first, it's cheap. I bought this one, works great. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Professional-Radiator-Cooling-System-Vacuum-Purge-Coolant-Refill-Tool-Kit-Set/202413629455?epid=8023023371&hash=item2f20cae00f:g:s8MAAOSwQoVZiB4z
G48 is not really suitable for Ferraris since it does not contain organic acid technology additives or nitrites for wet liners. Works great for Mercedes and BMWs, which do not have wet liners. There is nothing in the owners manuals about G48 and the recommendation is for Glycoshell, which does contain organic acid technology additives. Where do your quotes originate? And who says G48 is "Ferrari approved"?
Owners manual is not up to date. Image Unavailable, Please Login This is the F430 recommendations today, I got them directly from Ferrari, and it's what the dealers use. To my knowledge, Glycoshell does not contain nitrites. The data sheet from Shell says "Concentrate does not contain any Nitrites". I also talked directly to a chemist at Kemetyl, the company that makes the CARIX G48, about coolants in general. He said that BASF Glysantin G48 is officially tested/approved by Ferrari and recommended it, as the CARIX is only available in large quantities. Check BASF's website, G48 is listed as Ferrari Approved. Where does the information come from that Ferrari would require nitrite in the coolant? I'm curious, because Ferrari only recommends nitrite-free coolants for F430.
If you filled the system with water, you will need to drain it from more places than just radiators to get it nearly all out. Otherwise you'll have difficulty estimating the proper antifreeze/water ratio since a large amount of water will remain in the system. On a 430, you should drain from the pipes where they connect to the water pump and the return to the engine. This requires removing the underpanel to access these. Use an Airlift to refill the system. Xerex G-05 @ 50/50 is the right stuff to put back in.
Image Unavailable, Please Login This is the latest fluid recommandations by Ferrari, for the F430. G-05 contains nitrite. As you seem to be a Ferrari pro tech, what does the Ferrari official recommendation in USA say? Is it diffferent than Europe?
https://www.amazon.com/BASF-50537940-Glysantin-G48-Ready-Mix/dp/B002UXQZRC/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=BASF+Glysantin+G48&qid=1578765149&sr=8-1
You are correct. Referenced the SDS for Glycoshell, no nitrate listed. Zerex G 48, no nitrate listed. Zerex G 05, Sodium Nitrite <.1~>.5%. Major chemicals are the same in type and percentage.Ethylene Glycol and Diethylene Glycol. No idea why Nitrate based coolant is better for wet sleeve motors. Curious?
I'm curious why the nitrate coolants is recommended in several threads at F-chat, when Ferrari does not. Is it a private opinion, or is it recommended by Ferrari USA to use nitrite?
Get a vacuum kit. They are not expensive and amazon is two day shipping. Best tool for coolant you will buy. I use it on regular cars with front engine also. getting the air out can be a bi**h.
There are modern extended life coolants (ELCs) with organic acid technology (OAT) additives that are superior to nitrites to prevent cavitation erosion on Ferrari liners. If the coolant does not have OAT additives or nitrites (G05), they should not be used on Ferraris. Nitrites are only good for about 1-2 years. Note Ferrari has no recommendation for changing the coolant on late model Ferraris. This has caused major problems in Ferraris, up to and including liner erosion to the point of holes developing.
Hilarious.. Instead of admitting that you are wrong about your G48-post, you are trying to make fun of me for a simple spelling mistake. Even in 2004, the Shell Glycoshell was NAP-free (Does not contain nitrite, amine or phosphate). That's 16 years ago. Facts: Ferrari dealers, at least in Europe, are today using and recommending Shell Glycoshell or CARIX G48 for the F430. BASF Glysantin G48 is Ferrari Approved for all Ferraris between 1979-2009. None of these contain nitrite. To get Approved, BASF says they need to... Automotive and engine manufacturers have stricter and additional test requirements compared to general standards (e.g. BS6580 or ASTM D 3306). The approval process usually takes between three and five years and is very cost-intensive. If any changes are made to the composition of the coolant, the entire approval process must be repeated. Dynamic engine coolant testing under computer-controlled conditions. Comprehensive testing of physical properties of the coolant, such as density, boiling point, freezing point and color. Thousands of hours of laboratory testing, measuring the corrosion protection of different metals under various conditions. Fleet tests on the road under real-world conditions as well as on test tracks under tougher driving conditions. The coolant is analyzed and assessed at regular intervals. After testing, the engine and cooling systems are disassembled and examined. Is it really up to debate if Valvoline Zerex G-05 (to my knowledge only available in the USA), that contains nitrite, not Ferrari approved, is the best coolant choice for a F430? I see no reason to use the G-05 instead of what Ferrari recommends. (Please excuse any spelling or gramatic mistakes, English is not my main language).
My dealer in the UK has my 430 coolant on a 4 year change cycle, but i am told the latest cars have a coolant for life in them.
BASF recommends 3-4 years interval change for all their coolant fluids, calculated from the production date of the coolant bottle. Frost protection remains even after 4 years, but the important inhibitors will degrade.
Coolant fluids don't last forever, they degrade. BASF Glysantin G30 is the Ferrari Approved coolant for 2010-> models, it should also be changed after about 4 years.
Johan- Sorry, not wrong. All your meaningless quotes about G48 do not contain the one fact it needs to be suitable for Ferraris. If it is not an ELC with organic acid technology (OAT, look it up so you know something about the subject) or a non-ELC with nitrites (no, that was not a spelling error, you did not know the difference between the two), then it is not suitable for wet liner engines, which include Ferraris and most commercial diesels. As mentioned earlier, BMWs and Mercedes, which use G48, do not have wet liners so cavitation erosion of liners is not an issue. All the ELC producers state the maximum their additive packages will last is 5 years. Nitrites only last about two years. There is no such thing as a permanent coolant. Commercial users with diesels with wet liners actually renew the additive packages when testing determines the additives are becoming ineffective. Not practical for cars, especially ones with heat exchangers using coolant to cool transaxles that need regular coolant changes to ensure the exchanger has not failed.
Now I am confused! My research before I changed my coolant: The infamous Dexcool OAT Zerex G05, Zerex/BMW G48 etc. HOAT.Hybrid Organic Acid Technology. Is my understanding correct? I don't use Dexcool. I change my coolant every year. So not as concerned. Used G48 coolants in my former 348, 355 and current 360. Never an issue. Next year I will use Zerex G05. Can't hurt!
Ferrari is concerned about suggesting Shell products that will get the car out of its warranty period. They really don't give a rats ass if your liners have holes in them from cavitation 10 years from now. I do. Their official spark plug was Champion for most of their history and kept beating that dead horse until in the late 90's the warranty costs of continuing to use them surpassed what Champion was paying for the promotional value. Manufacturers have a long history of not suggesting the best products but suggesting the products they get the best compensation for promoting. It is nothing new.
They do my 430 with shell every 4 years- but the workshop manager was telling about the life coolant in the latest cars. A lot higher cost as well if you lose it
On the industrial diesels we do a chemical test every week to determine the reserve level and add more to bring it up to the required strength. No need to change the complete fill. Some engines use chromates and some use nitrates- it depends if we have a distilled water evaporator fitted or not. We tend to over dose the engine as the higher nitrate level decreases the chances of hair line cracks in the cylinder heads and exhaust valve casings
Life coolant is pointless in most of the cars because every few years we will be draining it for some type of service or repair and draining, saving in uncontaminated containers and reusing is laborious enough any savings just went poof. And that is only if (a very big if) it is truly a life product. BMW had a lifetime transmission fluid and we all know how that turned out. Most life fill products exist for one reason. It gives the manufacturer a way to tell you how low maintenance costs will be. Only true for the original buyer who will not have to bear the burden of paying for the replacement of very expensive components.
