Value of service records on an F430 F1 | FerrariChat

Value of service records on an F430 F1

Discussion in '360/430' started by dweintra, Jan 22, 2020.

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  1. dweintra

    dweintra Karting

    Aug 16, 2012
    130
    Seattle, WA and Miami, FL
    Full Name:
    Don Weintraub
    Hello all, I have been following this forum closely and am quite serious about an F430 F1. The clean Carfax has a lot of service listed over the years, and it has paper service records from the current owner...but no records from the 3 prior owners. The paper records on hand only go back about 1.5 years. The rest seem to be missing, but hopefully will turn up before the PPI this weekend.....if I choose to even keep it on the schedule.

    I know that calling the dealers on the Carfax is not going to be successful....I have been down that path with a Ferrari and a Maserati in the past and read about it on this forum.

    I really don't want to overlook a very clean car I really want, but worried about challenge in selling it in a few years. The price is fair for both sides .....but was agreed upon when records were to come with the car. The car is not local to me so it is a lot of trouble to get the PPI and ship, etc.

    Question: Assuming there are two identical clean F430's with a good PPI and good Carfax, how much more is the one with good paper records worth?

    Thanks!
     
  2. flat_plane_eddie

    flat_plane_eddie F1 Rookie
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Mar 30, 2013
    3,143
    NE FL
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    Eddie
    If the PPI checks out well don't lose the car over the older records. A car with a good PPI and records will always be worth more but if you show the previous owner's records and keep a copy of the PPI plus what you'll do to it, that's a pretty solid foundation for when you sell. At least in my opinion.
     
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  3. Jason Crandall

    Jason Crandall F1 Veteran

    Mar 25, 2004
    6,373
    ATL/CHS/MIA
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    Jason
    My issue with this is all the Counterfeit goods in the world and peoples ability to do odometer roll backs. I bought a Benz 2 years ago that had the odometer rolled back. Fortunately I bought purchase insurance and got my money back. Service Records are a great way to prove actual mileage.

    Just look at the price difference between a high mile car and a low mile car. Lot's of money to be made.
     
  4. BlacktopRacing

    BlacktopRacing Formula Junior

    Sep 18, 2016
    915
    Pittsburgh
    Full Name:
    Dale
    What is peace of mind worth to you? It is difficult to obtain a paper trail of service records over that length of time, especially if multiple owners are involved. I've managed to piece together a fairly accurate history on my 2005, which had 3 previous owners, including their names and addresses. Does it add value? Maybe a little, but it makes me feel better
     
  5. RedNeck

    RedNeck F1 Veteran
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    Jul 8, 2016
    9,958
    The CSA
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    Honestly the carfax should take care of that for the most part unless the last owner had the car for several years and put a strangely low amount of miles on it. I would just put as much into the PPI as possible, spend a bit more and have them inspect, compression test, scope, whatever you need to feel comfortable. Honestly I put a lot more into recent service. A wheel bearing replacement 10 years ago isn't going to help you much today if the wheel is making noise.
     
  6. imahorse

    imahorse F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 25, 2017
    2,744
    WI
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    Dustin
    How much it is worth depends on the buyer. I'm going to ruffle some feathers with this one, but service records mean little to me. While there are many good shops out there, I have seen on multiple occasions service records for work that was never done.
     
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  7. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 13, 2009
    15,915
    Charleston, SC
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    Curt
    I'm in agreement with this above.

    OP:
    So are you buying this car for YOU? Or are you buying it for the next owner?
    I get it.. I get it.. get all the service records you can so you can sell it for max money to the next buyer. I predict it doesn't matter. If you have a car with 20,000 miles with impeccable service history and a car with 2,300 miles and No service history, do you honestly think service history is going to convince the buyer to suddenly go with the 20k mile car for the same money? No.
    If you're going to buy it and let it sit in the garage for 20 years and then sell as a museum piece, just buy the car with the lowest miles and best present condition. If you're actually going to drive it or it has any miles on it whatsoever, you're going to loose money. Those records aren't going to suddenly take a car that has dents and scratches and make it a premium car. All 430's F1's are going to depreciate. You WILL loose money when you sell regardless of recorded service history.
     
    imahorse likes this.
  8. dweintra

    dweintra Karting

    Aug 16, 2012
    130
    Seattle, WA and Miami, FL
    Full Name:
    Don Weintraub
    Thanks all. I am not worried about depreciation or putting miles on it. My last Ferrari had a fair assortment of records over a few owners. It sold very easily. My past boats had a binder of records and sold easily.

    When you read this forum people talk about records, records, records and I made the offer expecting records.

    I am not worried about the mileage being accurate or anything like that. It does sound like it is very hard to put a value on records.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  9. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 22, 2002
    18,858
    impossible to measure or estimate. evidence of recent service in my opinion is more important that extensive service evidence from 10 years ago. if the car has low miles and didnt receive annual oil changes thats not a big deal at all, despite what people will say. synthetic oil doesnt degrade just by sitting still. if the car checks out and has recent service you are in good shape
     
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  10. ScudMarks

    ScudMarks Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 22, 2018
    330
    Bay Area, CA
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    Matthew Mauer
    Records on a 430 are much less important than on a 328, 348, 355, or 360. Timing of belt services for those cars were the most important reason for having the paper trail. No one wanted to see a car go 10 years between belt services, regardless of miles. The 430 has a few things you need to look out for, and the paper trail may or may not help with that anyway. The headers, mounts, and F1 system are the culprits. Even if replaced with the fictitious "Gen 2" headers, they are still prone to fail without reinforced mounts. Just spend $$ on a thorough PPI, and with a clean report, buy it. The car and seat covers, owners manuals, VIP book, tire inflation kit etc are more of a pain in the ass to replace, and buyers will worry more about not having those items. My .02
     
  11. dweintra

    dweintra Karting

    Aug 16, 2012
    130
    Seattle, WA and Miami, FL
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    Don Weintraub
    More good thoughts. Many years back I had a 328GTS with the belts.

    A PPI from an Fchat recommended independent is scheduled for this F430. Will see how it goes.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  12. Skidkid

    Skidkid F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 25, 2005
    8,753
    Campbell, CA
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    John Zornes
    I think they are worth less and less over time. Condition is going to be the telling factor as these cars continue to age. If you have a collector car (garage queen or real pedigree) you may want to generate a history for the car; Otherwise it is far less important.
     
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  13. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    Dec 13, 2009
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    If the PPI looks good and there are no "major" issues with the car, you'll be OK. The key is major. Expect a couple minor things to be missed that you can easily fix. 430's don't have that many huge issues. Biggie might be hidden accident damage not reported. Should be obvious on inspection and with driving the car.
     
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  14. gatago

    gatago Karting

    Jun 28, 2019
    119
    Full Name:
    Marco
    Im with you. I don't care much now, didn't care much when I purchased my F430, and won't when I buy my next one. As long as the carfax is clean, PPI from respectable SC that knows all the common problems with the car I'm buying, I don't need them unless it's to prove recent service.
     
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  15. dweintra

    dweintra Karting

    Aug 16, 2012
    130
    Seattle, WA and Miami, FL
    Full Name:
    Don Weintraub
    Thank you...this and the other feedback is helpful.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  16. JaguarXJ6

    JaguarXJ6 F1 Veteran

    Feb 12, 2003
    5,459
    Black Hawk, CO
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    Sunny
    You've been given some great advice. People want the service records because they aren't driving it or spending their own money to create them, they are garage queens passing on potential problems to the next person.

    Many times the work done on the paper wasn't actually done. If so, it could be half-assed/done incorrectly.

    I bought mine without a PPI. What matters is the condition it's currently in and what you can live with. My total sum to fix everything was a few hundred bucks.

    There will be minor issues not disclosed because they don't know about them. Good luck!
     
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  17. Skidkid

    Skidkid F1 Veteran
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    Aug 25, 2005
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    Sunny, I did the same with my 599; No PPI. I had one on my first F car and I fully understand wanting one on your first buy. They can spot the big issues but still aren't a guarantee. And no amount of due diligence replaces reading the wealth of information here and knowing what issues to be on the lookout for.
     
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  18. E60 M5

    E60 M5 Moderator
    Moderator Owner

    Jan 2, 2006
    8,064
    Wash DC area
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    Robert
    If you keep the car 3-4 years what will records from 5-6 years ago mean to anyone?? The car has been serviced and running well in your possession for 3-4 years, shouldn’t be an issue for anyone.
    I think your ability to sell and communicate with the next buyer means more to potential buyers.
     
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