F355 - Engine, airbag and anti-brake lights on | FerrariChat

F355 - Engine, airbag and anti-brake lights on

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Janice, Oct 17, 2017.

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  1. Janice

    Janice Rookie

    Oct 17, 2017
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    Janice Lee
    I have a Ferrari F355 Motronic 5.2 (1997) with Teves Mark 2 ABS system (35-pin plug). After renewing the engine, the anti-lock and brake warning lights flash 3 times, then pause for about 4 seconds, and then flash 4 times (when the ignition key turns to the ON position) . That is the ABS problem code 34 : Left Rear Wheel Speed Sensor circuit.

    Thus, I replaced the rear sensor, but after installing the sensor, the situation is even worse.... both engine and air bag lights are on too. I can't turn the lights off and clear the fault code. I have tried disconnecting the battery as well as the computer, but doesn't work.

    Does anyone know what happen and tell me how to fix it? Million thanks!
     
  2. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Could you post this message on the 348/355 forum, Janice (You'll probably get more responses).

    What do you mean by "renewing" the engine? Removing, overhauling and refitting?

    I can't see how the problems are related. Do you have an OBD-II reader to read the engine codes? Some engine codes only appear after a few drives (courtesy of system logic). That may be why you didn't get an engine light on the first run/s.

    If the battery disconnect didn't work to clear the airbag light, depending on the system, you can diagnose the fault and reset the light by shorting one of the pins on the airbag diagnostic port to earth (located in the passenger footwell). See:

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/has-anyone-successfully-pulled-codes-from-a-airbag-light.447941/#post-143127741

    If you don't have the right type of airbag diagnostic port (plug), you may need a shop computer to diagnose the problem and reset the light. A common cause of an airbag light is powering up the car with the binnacle wiring harnesses disconnected, but if you only changed the ABS wheel speed sensor, this wouldn't be the cause.

    If it's not the speed sensor causing the ABS/brake lights, then it's either the wiring or the computer. Did the sensor plug look clean (car side)? Can you check the continuity of the wiring between the computer and the wheel speed sensor with an ohmmeter?

    Cheers
    Ian
     
  3. Janice

    Janice Rookie

    Oct 17, 2017
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    Janice Lee
    Thank you so much for your reply and suggestion, Ian.

    I took out the engine and replaced some old parts with new one, such as exhaust manifold, catalytic converter, etc.

    ABS light has been on after replacing the engine and indicated the 3 - 4 code, no engine light and air bag light was on during the first few drives. To fix the ABS light problem, I replaced the rear ABS sensor. After that, ABS light is still on as well as the engine light and air bag light!

    I don't have a OBD-II reader. In fact, my F355 is with Teves Mark 2 ABS system, as far as I know, the OBD-II reader doesn't work on Teves system. And I cannot find a reader or diagnostic tool to erase the code and clear the light. Do you have further suggestions? Thank you!!

    Janice
     
  4. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    Janice,

    Correct - Teves does not connect with OBDII or SD. I have a detailed Teves manual - send me an email (not PM) and I will get it to you.

    For the airbag, you need an SD (1,2,3 or X) or Leonardo to clear the fault.
     
  5. brian.s

    brian.s F1 Rookie
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    Nov 3, 2003
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    Did the connector get hooked back up for the ABS sensor? Up in the wheelarch.
     
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  6. Janice

    Janice Rookie

    Oct 17, 2017
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    Janice Lee
    Thanks for your reply, Dave.

    My email: [email protected]

    One more question, SD (1,2,3 or X) or Leonardo scanner fit Teves Mark 2 system which is 35-pin plug? And where to buy this? Thanks!!

     
  7. Janice

    Janice Rookie

    Oct 17, 2017
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    Janice Lee
    Yes, it did
     
  8. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Actually, I meant using the OBD-II reader for the Check Engine Light. It's more than likely you have separate problems.
     
  9. Motob

    Motob Formula 3
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    Nov 11, 2003
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    In order to get the ABS system to flash a code, you must install a fuse into a fuse socket that is normally empty. When you did your repairs, did you install a fuse in the ABS diagnositic connector that is located at the RF of the trunk compartment? If so, this why the ABS light is flashing.

    The fault codes in the Teves ABS ECU are stored in a non-volatile memory, meaning if the battery is disconnected they are still present. Supposedly the only way to clear the memory, is to repair the issue, read the flash code and then drive the car above 35 mph. But I have found that on some ECUs it is impossible to clear the fault, and have even swapped the ECU with a stored flash code into another car that had no problems, and still the flash code will not erase.

    But even if there is a code present, as long as the rest of the system is ok, the ABS will function normally and the the ABS warning light will only come on when the fuse is in the diagnostic connector.
    Remove the fuse from the diagnostic connector, see if the ABS light works normally (comes on when starting the car and then goes out) and if the ABS system works when braking hard on a loose surface.

    There is no scan tool for the Teves ABS system, it is diagnosed using the warning light flash codes. Get a good manual on the system.
    The check engine light and airbag light are unrelated unless you messed up wiring (ground, power, alternator function, etc.)
     
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  10. Janice

    Janice Rookie

    Oct 17, 2017
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    Thank you very much for your informative comment and suggestion, Motob. I'll try it out and hope that I will return with a good news :)
     
  11. Janice

    Janice Rookie

    Oct 17, 2017
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    Thanks Qavion. I'll try finding a OBD-II reader to work it out.
     
  12. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
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    Exactly
     
  13. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    Grant - see above, he already confirmed this.
     
  14. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
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    Oops
     
  15. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
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    Sep 18, 2002
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    By chance..have a look if the wheel speed sensor harness hasnt been pinched between the shock tower frame and the body structure. I have seen this a few times, and in fact did it myself once.
     
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  16. Ricambio

    Ricambio Karting

    Dec 30, 2016
    76
    Hi Motob,

    I think you are spot on! I have two M2.7 F355 (euro) and TEVES ABS at the shop, one had ABS issues with 34 code if IIRC and th eother was for other stuff but ABS was ok. We looked for the wiring signals and ABS sensor, even replaced it for the sake of testing it and still was present the code.

    We decided to swap the ECU for test only from the other F355 fully working ABS and got the same code in the original existing car with ABS problem, so we installed back the ECU in the non problem F355 car and this car started to flash the ABS light, getting a slightly different code other position ABS sensor , (I can make a more detailed codes later), so I did push the disable ABS button on the dash and the lights goes OFF, take for a spin and ABS won't work or kick actually, light ON or OFF it won't work the system as intended. Everytime I cycle the IGN or start the engine the ABS light will flash and stay ON now....so this ECU look slike "captured" the issue from th eother car and stored the code or similar code in it's memory and now it doesn't work. Not sure how i can delete the code or reset the ECU :(

    The existing F355 ABS problem, is somehting I need to check further ( ihave the F355 workshop manual and tell you all the flash code errors what can be and what can you look for to fix it) but still I think if there's any scanner that could enter into the TEVES system to read/erase the memory could do the trick for my case. I have the 3 PIN FIAT cable anf the Autel scanner, I could barely enter in the M 5.2 variant F355 to erase a engine SLOW DOWN light but other than that, can't read/communicate with M 2.7 variant Motronic, and TEVES/suspension ecu system even while they all share the same 3 PIN connetcor for diagnostics.

    Any input very much appreciated.
     
  17. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    I have the same 3 pin connector on my tail lights, Ricambio ;)

    When you put the ECU back in the donor car, did you make sure you drove the car above 30 kph?
     
  18. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Nov 29, 2001
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    There is no way to reset the ABS error code from a scanner. The ABS error clears itself after the car has been driven over 30 Mph and the error condition is gone.
     
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  19. Ricambio

    Ricambio Karting

    Dec 30, 2016
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    Yes, I did. Couple of runs arround the block. Even I hit the highway for a very short distance....donor car got "corrupted" crap!
     
  20. Ricambio

    Ricambio Karting

    Dec 30, 2016
    76
    OK , UPDATE:

    So, the donnor car never cleared or reset the ABS module, nor works (activate) it just locks the tires. Donnor car always flashes when IGN is ON and then stays ON the light when start the engine. Also I took it's own TEVES modules and installed in a 3rd F355 I have here which has no fault of ABS (until I found later something I will explain down here), installed the module in the 3rd car , started the engine and ABS light went off....took it for a spin and all normal. But I noticed the ABS button wouldn't disable the ABS (turn ON the light)...weird.
    So came back to the shop, installed back it's replaced TEVS module, and grabbed the "sick" module of the donnor and car and installed it back in the donnor car, STARTED the engine and ABS flashes the same code, 32. Took it for a spin and same behavior, won't turn OFF until I push the ABS button and then goes off the light, however, On or OFF the light, no ABS application whatsoever, it will lock the brakes.

    Then scratched my head and went back to the 3rd car and took it for a spin, but this time I went to test the ABS activation and same thing, STARTED the engine, ABS goes off anf start rolling, push the ABS button and doesn't turn OFF the ABS (ABS lighth should be ON), so I hit the brakes and it will lock again....looks like this 3rd car had this issue all the time W/O noticing it that won't activate the ABS after we replaced the original faulty/manipulated TEVES module with a used one that turned OFF the ABS light and "fixed the problem" as I thought, YET it will LOCK THE BRAKES, aka won't work, but with no ERRORS or ABS flashes to display at all....go figure it out.

    And first car still has the issue, all the lines TRIPLE checked and all has continuity.

    So there you go, I have 3 F355's with ABS problems, with slightly different codes and one no code at all but won't work the ABS nor deactivate the ABS by pushing the button.

    Wonderfull life of the F355 , love it!!
     
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  21. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Nov 29, 2001
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    Welcome to Teves hell. We have all been here and continue to be here.
     
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  22. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Regarding the 3rd car.... I've been staring at the wiring diagram for hours, and can't make much sense of it.

    The cutout button seems to open circuit a control wire going from the ECU to the pump relay solenoid (black relay). i.e. the ECU no longer has control of the pump. When the cutout switch is pushed, does the ECU immediately detect that the circuit is open circuit and normally put on the light, or does it detect (after a while), that the hydraulic fluid pressure is not being maintained?

    So what illuminates the fault light? Looking at the diagram, the fault light can be activated in two ways:

    1) An earth from the ECU. Basically, the ECU can turn on the light at any time. OR....
    2) An earth created by a relaxed Control Relay (green). The relay is controlled by the ECU. No power to the relay (blown ABS ECU fuse, etc) can also put on the light.

    From this, and the results you got by putting the 2nd car ECU into this car, it seems that the "fault" signal from both ECUs is not getting to the light. Perhaps a problem with the wire on pin 27 of the ECU?

    F355 Teves Wiring Diagram

    However, I'm sure there's a more likely solution that I've overlooked.
     
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  23. Ricambio

    Ricambio Karting

    Dec 30, 2016
    76
    OK, another UPDATE: We were checking the random light of suspension that pop up in the cluster while ABS light was ON as described in the "FIRST" car not the donnor, we couldn't find a real issue but we suspect is the lack of speed signal randomly that trigger the light of the suspension. We pieced back all the parts and started the car (after it was w/o battery power or kill switch OFF) and the light turned off by itself, I told my self, this has happend to me in th epast, few blocks away it will light up again , and so I took it for a spin and refill gas. It never turned ON and I could press the ABS kill switch and disable it, when enbale i t(light off) it will apply the ABS accordingly....so far so good. Did it erased/fixed itself?

    Donnor car that got "infected", now acts different. It will start and the light turn off, press the abs kill switch and turn on, as sopoused. But light off (no DTC) it won't activate the ABS when hit the brakes and will lock the tires. And randomly it will light up the ABS indicator from the nowhere.....I think there are ghosts in these cars .....
     
  24. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Did you replace the wheel speed sensor on the first car?

    I'm just wondering if you have an intermittent kill switch or intermittent kill switch controller (part number 156086) on the donor car. You can put a jumper wire on the kill switch controller connector to deactivate the kill switch system (i.e. disconnect the connector and short out the 2 red-white wires). Like the 3rd car, the problem also may have been hidden until you started playing with it.

    In hindsight, it probably would have been better to invest in an SD1 tool than to spend all the time and effort on these cars :p
     

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