430 Sline vs Kline

There are too many vague assumptions in this statement to even begin a discussion on what the value of the S-Line exhaust is or is not. I can, however, say that a product is worth at the very least the exact amount a buyer is willing to pay for it. My car came with the S-Line on it and I can admit that it is possible I might have looked at the $3500 price tag and figured it to be a little steep. That being said, once you hear the note it creates on the F430 and compared to the noise I've heard in person from other F430 exhaust systems then there really is no comparison in my humble opinion. The noise is worth the money even if it was true it is nothing but some steel and nice welds. Also don't forget the bracket assembly that attaches the exhaust to the gearbox is very well designed and of very good build quality. Not to mention the lightness of the system lends itself to putting a significant amount of less stress on the headers although I'm sure most if not all aftermarket exhaust are lighter than original to some degree. Every bit of hardware is of very high quality including the brackets,clamps, bolts, washers etc...

In the end of the day I absolutely recommend anybody looking to upgrade the exhaust on the F430 to at least listen to the S-Line in person and compare to other exhaust systems in person. I wouldn't want to spend $$$ on an exhaust system simply because it had more metal and valves only to afterwords hear another F430 with the S-Line in it. It's simply the best sounding exhaust I've ever heard on any car.

 

S Line exhausts are made one at a time to order and to fit each car. They’re hand made which means they are not churned out by the truck load like other systems. Other manufacturers have these cookie cutter systems with modular parts and one size fits all designs. It makes for a great business model but not necessarily the best exhaust.

Of course they can pad their prices so, in your words, “there is a lot of margin for discount.” S Line essentially offers their product so close to what it costs them that there is no discount. It’s the opposite of over priced. It’s under priced for what you get.

I guess in some people’s eyes, they would rather that S Line pad the price by 40% more so they can then discount it by 25% to make certain people feel good about their purchase? That doesn’t make much sense.

 

No worries guys. We have our opinion. I picked up a full IPE exhaust for only a couple of thousand more. From what I’ve heard IRL it sounds more high pitch then enough for me.

 

OR....some people assume that custom means better and they really don't know what they are buying or the cost associated with the product being manufactured. If you think that 5 piece of off the self SS angle tubing, that has less custom work that any exhaust I've seen, is worth $3,500.00 ?........then, it's your money but don't say it's better and cost more due to R&D and custom made. IMO, the welds are mediocre.

 

Yep, the welds on the s-line system are so "mediocre", to have NEVER experienced a single failure amongst any of those who've purchased it. I was the guinea pig way back when and the prototype on my car failed at the mount/central column, after which, the design was rapidly iterated upon to what it is today which is proven and 100% bulletproof. I've had this system before anyone else, hence the longest running for almost 7+ years, still bulletproof, only thing I'm annoyed by is the high polish, it doesn't stay high polished!

And in case you haven't been aware of this context, many many years back, I went on a hunt for that F1 shrill for the Scud, it took me 2 years of experimenting w many different exhausts (all listed earlier) and finally working with s-line+another scud owner to achieve that perfect high-pitched F1 sound.

Can't say the same about Kline on the other hand, as mentioned in other threads, their systems have recorded failures of various reasons on fchat. Lets see how your newly installed exhaust fairs in the next few years then circle back on this convo.

For anyone else, all else being equal what would you rather have in your car?

Something w "mediocre" welds that has never fubar'd
or
Something w apparently "superior" welds that has fubar'd?

 

...someone is offended. What took you so long to show up? You obviously have skin in the game???

Buy what you like....people have different needs and wants. I considered S-Line. Again, IMO...TO ME....the 5 pieces that clamps together, some by pipe expansion and sleeve in, doesn't justify a $3,500.00 price tag. I appreciate that it's light though. At the end, it's up to the person if it's worth it. I'm just providing some additional opinion.

I call them like I see them. The S-Line I've seen in person.....the welds are not that well done. Failures, I didn't say anything about failures.
I would say the same if I saw it in the Kline...or any other manufacture. I'm not being being bias.

Meat...have you done any TIG welding?

 

I am not offended; more confused than anything that your justification of whether an exhaust system is "worth it or not" seems solely based on quote "mediocre welds" which objectively are not mediocre because they have never failed, yet you can go on to justify spending 'X' more dollars on something else, like for example Kline, that has had a history of documented failures and deem it more "worth it" and that those welds are not "mediocre", even though they've failed?

Didn't compute for me...and I have no skin in the game, other than having my own preference of which system I ended up sticking with. I've had all the systems discussed in this thread, so I guess maybe I have skin in all of them?

 

I listed other reasons than the mediocre welds. I can dissect it more if you're interested.

Also, I believe the failures are within the inconel material. Again, you comparing apple to oranges and misguiding the people in the thread. I'm not aware of any stainless steel or titanium failures? Didn't we make it clear we're talking about stainless?

 

Your other reason is that the components were off the shelf tubing? And? Doesn't make the material inferior...so, I don't get that either...plus that's not even true, the tubing sections used were made to sline specifications, only thing off the shelf is the diameter...

Nah, the failures were for both inconel and ss. The 430/Scud-specific failures were ss...not my car, but both O2 sensor tubes from the ss Kline cats broke off at the welds here:
Image Unavailable, Please Login

I'll ask permission from the other owners who experienced Kline failures (some are not 430-specific) if I can repost pics (if you absolutely need to see 'em). I got cracked FF headers to 458 exhausts so pick ur poison...

My criteria for "worth it":
• Durability ie if it breaks it's mediocre
• F1 sound ie if it's not high-pitched it's mediocre
• Fitment ie if it doesn't fit it's mediocre
• Performance ie if it loses power it's mediocre

Sline checked all the boxes for me, so, definitely not mediocre.

 

Meat,
In that picture....
Stainless, inconel, or titanium will fail if you the extenders of that type. My fabspeed failed the same way on my test pipe and I'm sure if S-line had the same bung hole for an o2 sensor, it will fail as well.

That is not the fault of the metal or the product. Simply, weld and or product is not meant to have that much weight at a 90 degree angle in such extreme heat. That is really user error. Mine were mini cats and were not even at 90 degree. I since reinforced my fabspeed weld on my test pipe and the o2's are vertical.

Also, those are headers ....we're talking exhaust systems here. Where has there been exhaust system failures??

But thanks for bringing it up.

 

user error? how so? those were what was designed on the product to hold them lol...so ok, not mediocre welds then? just mediocre design? lol

 

Simple,..... header, test pipes made of metal with welds, although used...like extenders, are not meant nor designed to hold such weight near such high (glowing red) temperatures. You're just asking for failure. To me that is user error. My Fabspeed did the same thing and I don't blame Fabspeed...I blamed myself. Their CS is another story.

Also, you're bringing in a header subject matter when we're discussing exhaust systems. It's not relevant.

 

Good discussion for the OP.

I bought my S-Line before I found the car. The Kline looks like a sweet system particularly with ability to go valved. It may be every bit equal but a little boutique - it never came up as an option and I spent months comparing clips. The S-Line saved me the F355 belt change costs and for that, I'm grateful!

I did get a discount which paid for the titanium air box shield and had them install it. Then I took the welder out for a spin in his creation with the perk of supporting a local business.

 

you asked about failures in general so I threw up what I had which is a spectrum. Anyways...

me interpreting your response w extreme optimism: said aftermarket company(s) didn’t account for the necessity of extenders (even though they provided said extenders), but went ahead and pushed the product as is anyways knowingly that it would ultimately fail.

shrugs.

 

Isn’t the sound they make and durability of the product most important. I could be misunderstanding some people’s stance but it sounds to me like the argument against the S-Line exhaust is that you can spend more on another exhaust which has more materials thus giving the impression it’s better value but that also doesn’t sound as good as the S-Line exhaust.

So the S-Line is perceived to cost more than it should, cheaper than most other quality systems, sounds absolutely fantastic.

Other systems cost more, don’t sound as good as the S-Line but preferred because you get more material for your money.

I don’t find the logic in this. I will say if a valved system is a high priority then it makes sense to go a different route but if that’s not the issue then why fuss over perceived value?

I feel like others would be copying the system if it was significantly cheaper AND sounded as good. I’m not sure what the exact composition of the metal alloy used in S-Line systems but I’d guess it is distinctive to their product to assist the F1 sounding tone it produces.

 

To each his own but i prefer a valved system that sounds 8 out of 10 on the fictive "F1-scale". S-line might be a 9 but unvalved and without a muffler it´s just not good value for allround use. I´m sure the sound level is also prohibited on most tracks and out in traffic.

 

I don't have either of these systems on my car but if the amount of material you get for the money is the issue, take a look at motorcycle exhausts!

Imagine how much piping you'd need for a motorcycle (ie, not a lot) and look at how much a full system costs for a Ducati (hint, it's more than the S-Line).

If you like the sound, get it; if not, buy something else instead.

 

Do what I did and have the system ceramic coated with 2500F capacity. Mine is satin black and looks great! I used a FLIR thermal camera and documented external temps of the exhaust afterwords. With the ceramic coating you can grip the exhaust at the junction box after only 7 minutes of shutting the car off from a very spirited drive. Dropped about 120F per minute and was room temp after seven minutes. The factory post cat connection that was not coated was still 470F. Quite impressive.

The pictures show 1 minute increments and at 5 minutes it was 180F approximately and was at 78F 2 minutes later but I can’t find the pics.


Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

No, I, personally, don't like how it constructed. A company can charge however much they want. It's really 5 pieces of tubing you can buy and cut to fit. Instead of mandrel bending some angles to make a smooth piece the expanded the tube and used clamps. Again, I appreciate the light weight but I don't see how $3,500 is the cost of the exhaust. It's not really about comparing it to others. But ...to each him own.

Another example is Fabspeed charging $600 for exhaust clamps. LOL..really?

....but again, my wife pays $5k for dyed leather with a straps on it.

 

So for me the Kline is the best system for the F430! Quiet with closed valves and nice F1 sound with open valves. I love this system. I have the Inconel version - in this video with the Capristo headers.

 

I think the Video speaks for itself...

 

Love your vids! What's the exact setup in this vid?

 

Thanks man! This video is S-Lines and Kline 100 cell cats. In my later videos they’re hair S-Lines and stick cats. Perfect tone in my opinion.

Are you in SoCal?