360 Clutch/Throttle issue--Bucking

Let's do the preliminary checks. Any fluid leakage? Is the F1 fluid level OK? Was the F1 fluid ever changed? Possibly air in hydraulic system.

 

How does air in the system do that?

 

Pretty common for those new to the car. The throttle is sensitive. Ferrari even suggested starting in 2nd for smoother starts. Its in the manual. That works OK if you don't mind wearing out the clutch. You are going to have to be smoother on the throttle. Have another 360 owner drive it and see but there is a very good chance it is a matter of your technique.

 

How many threads are there with new owners not being positive enough on the F1 clutch for it to fully engage ?

I'm not saying this is your issue but its worth considering and/or comment

(Beaten to it by post above)

 

Please explain how does air in the system NOT do that.

 

Sure, I'll prove a negative. No problem.

How many years of F1 service experience do you have?

 

Still waiting for your reply ...

 

Good luck with that.

 

That's what I thought.

 

It's a viscious cycle - you're letting off the gas, the car bucks and you hit the gas, then back off because it lurches forward... As mentioned above more initial pedal pressure and don't let off the gas as you go. I found myself doing the same, I think it's a habit from driving an actual manual.

 

Exactly.

 

You don't know squat so don't give technical advice.

 

Wow. What a sore loser!

 

Hey man, once the car is in gear, it's in gear. The F1 hydraulics is only there to function during the gear shift. Once it's in gear, the hydraulics are no longer affecting the gearbox.

Have you ever driven a car stuck in 1st gear because the clutch cable is broken? You apply smooth gas pedal and it is smooth. You jerk the gas pedal and it lurches. The clutch cable does not do squat.

 

Bad analogy using a cable clutch system to compare with an F1 system, in my opinion. Simply put, the F1 system have hydraulic circuits to control gear selection and a hydraulic circuit to operate the clutch. To say that air in the clutch circuit do not affect clutch engagement is ludicrous.

 

You're presuming that the OP HASN'T just tried a smoother pedal approach. If the OP has applied the pedal and it still does it, it implies a throttle potentiometer is funky, odd signal to the throttle bodies, or funky gas delivery/mixture. If the initiation is abrupt, it could be air in the system. Why a bleed wasn't done while reading the clutch life is beyond me..

 

Inadequate bleeding of the air in the hydraulics of the F1 system will causes drive-ability issues.

When I opened up my hydraulic system to replace the pump/motor assembly, it took care, discipline, and time to bleed the system. I learned, to my surprise, after reading the technical data in the workshop manual that the pump for the F1 ran between 617 psi and 882 psi. I was shocked with these pressures.

You can not expect the F1 system to work properly if you have air in the system. If you study the technical data, you will find specs on the tightening torques for various fittings. At the pressures noted above, it becomes obvious why this so.

Good luck.

Jim

 

Begs the question, did the mechanice change out the entire pump or just replacing the motor and leaving the impeller in place? If changing out the entire pump, it's recommended that you purge the entire F1 system with new fluids.

 

The F1 system is very complicated. You also need the right diagnostic tool. I use AutoEnginuity, which allows you to do a TCU relearn, purges, do PIS setting, gear selection, etc.

 

The PIS is set too low. Try adjusting the pis from your current 4.8 to something like 5.2 or 5.4. It will engage the clutch a bit slower , smoothing out the start. GL

 

I have a 2004 3 pedal and it does the same thing. Low speed trying to hold a constant speed, it bucks. It is a mile to the head of the neighborhood so a very regular thing. I have noticed it is not as bad when warmed up. Shift to second and/or put under load and it smooths out. I have gotten used to it but would be nice to know if normal or something out of adjustment.

 

Many performance cars tend to "buck" in low gear at low speeds. It doesn't matter if they are manual or automatic transmission models. My opinion why is that the driver is causing this condition. In the aircraft world, this is called a "Pilot induced oscillation". Cars with high power and low first gears are extremely susceptible to PIO's. As the driver presses the accelerator, the car accelerates briskly, setting the driver back in their seat, and consequently, their foot comes off the gas a little. When the car responds to this decrease in throttle, it slows, and the driver moves forward in their seat and their foot presses on the gas pedal again. The car, now lurching forward, accelerates and the cycle continues until the driver presses harder on the accelerator, takes their foot off the gas or switches to a higher gear.

The solution to this problem is simple. Be aware of what's happening with your rear and your foot. If you feel being pushed into the seat, keep a mind on where you foot is. Train your foot to maintain position independent of your leg and the problem goes away.

I've had a number of high performance cars that manifested this problem until I got my accelerator discipline under control. The 360 is sensitive in this low speed, low gear regime but not overly so.

 

This. I have always done car control with the throttle so I have good accelerator discipline and I virtually never had bucking. I will say, once you start the bucking you have to take it out of gear to solve the issue. Once you start the oscillation the lash in the driveline will sustain it. It can be stopped without going out of gear but that takes VERY specific throttle control.