488 Brake Squeal

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, squeal will be there, just the function of the carbon ceramic brakes. I roll around in traffic and it sounds like your pads are worn out on typical cars.... interestingly on my Cali T, never had the same issue, or at least never noticed it.

 

I have 24000 kms on my 2017 488 and its been squealing from day 1 .Only annoying thing about the 488 in my view

 

Apparently it's forum-knowledge that Ferrari does not bed the brakes on their cars, according to some members here.

Have you tried bedding them as-if they were new?

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/458-italia-488/552871-expensive-peace-mind.html

 

A lot of people "assume" Ferrari beds the brakes at the factory (they don't). But even if you believe they do, there's no harm bedding them again. Bed them yourself so you'll know for sure. Just look in your owner's manual for the bedding procedures...oh wait. I just remembered Ferrari doesn't say one word about bedding brakes in the owner's manual. McLaren provides detailed instructions about bedding CCM brakes in the owner's manual, but Ferrari doesn't. No idea why?

BTW, I put 18,000 miles on both of my Stradales and the brakes never squealed. I bedded the brakes, but I can't say for sure this is why they never squealed. Maybe. I also put 4,000 miles on my Speciale, and the brakes do not squeal (yes, I bedded these brakes too). Maybe it's Skinner's pigeons

There is no way that I would live with squealing brakes. If your brakes squeal then you need to make a bigger fuss with your dealer, and don't let them tell you that all CCM brakes squeal because they don't.

 

like most performance brake setups you will get squeal when doing normal road use...

washing the car will sometimes make the noise go away for a while but it will come back..

another way is to find a bit of clear road and then get them brakes hot...warm them first then jump on them at high speeds a few times to clean the surface...

or better still get it on a track day...they never squeal coming off a trackday.

 

No squeal on my new GTB 250 miles in.

 

Ceramics squeal when there is any debris between the surfaces ( ceramic hip replacements do it if they get any metal debris between the surfaces)
Sometimes it can be cleared with washing or braking in the reverse but often not as the debris gets imbedded and causes microoscillation of the surface hence creating the sound. Manufacturers and dealers sometimes apply pastes to the surface to minimize the effect but it is simply a fact of life with ceramic brakes no matter the manufacturer


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This explanation seems to make sense. But you seem to be implying (I may be misreading your intent) that if your CCM brakes don't squeal now, just wait because they will squeal. Like I said, I put 38,000 miles on two Stradales with CCM brakes and they NEVER squealed. I also have 4,000 miles on my Speciale, and the brakes do not squeal. If they ever started to squeal, then I'd try re-bedding the brakes. I might even try hosing off the brakes with water or braking in reverse...why not If I could not cure the squealing brakes myself, then I'd have a mechanic disassemble the brakes and look for any obvious problems. My hope would be that the disassembly and reassembly process would cure the problem...I hope

 

I think most break systems are pretty good at wiping debris off the rotors using pads that sit on the surface of the rotor. This minimizes but doesn't eliminate the chance that debris will get under the pads at the interface with the rotor. Ceramic is very hard and will not allow much to get imbedded but there are substances on the road that are as hard or harder like quartz crystals in road dirt that do occasionally do get imbedded and can be difficult if not impossible to clear. I've had ceramic brakes that were silent for a year or two and then started squeaking or squealing and pad changes did not help.
The early squeakers when the car is new are probably the new pads with irregularities that do need to bed in and clear with time. I think late squeakers are bad luck with imbedded debris which hopefully can be cleared by early intervention but it hasn't been my experience. In my old SLS I had to get the pads and rotors changed to stop the squeal

 

I've been chasing these squeaky brakes for a one year now and have had various stories from various dealers at Ferrari.

Even though I have more than 60% pad left they are recommending new pads.

we will see if that fixes the problem. 3k gamble.

If not, the horse is going back for sale.
Cant live with it.
Amazing car in every respect, but the brakes are too squeaky for street enjoyment.



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Btw- i have a 2019 -488gtb. 10,000 miles. Embedding makes it worse.

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Embedding? Lost me....

Ccm brakes squeal on Ferrari, Porsche and others. The rotors get glazed from light braking. Sometimes washing the brakes...rotors and calipers with soap and water helps for a few days...but finding a deserted country road and bedding in the brakes will cure the issue...for a while but if you are back to very light braking, dragging the brakes to a stop the squeal will come back.

 

Replace the rotors with iron ones and get the appropriate pads. It would be a shame to get rid of the car because of an annoyance that can be remedied.

I just live with it on my 458.

 

Try the Pagid RSC1 pads and make damn sure all contact surfaces of the rear of the pad has copper grease on them. This means the backside of the pad where the piston meets the pads and anywhere there's contact between the pad back plate and caliper etc. This removes some squeal.
Then make sure the pads are bedded properly first time around.

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Its a Ferrari..... I wouldn't care of my CCBrakes broke out into a Justin Beiber tune let alone just a squeal. 1st world problems indeed....LOL

 

Exactly how does the fact that it's a Ferrari justify brake squeal? It's a sports car but also a high end luxury item - it needs to be as sorted as possible.

If you really enjoy the sound of race car brakes, I'd suggest you run the Pagid RSL 1 endurance race pads. They will last a very long time, and they will probably shatter your teeth at every red light.

 

Here are some observations on brake squeal from my experience. I thought it was bad enough to warrant having it checked out by the dealer. My brakes are said to be like new, and the squeal is normal. For me it is the most noticeable in the winter when driving around freezing temps. If I am not riding the brakes hard, they just squeal like regular pads would when worn. What drives me nuts though is the chirping i get sometimes when i am not even applying brakes . Pumping them a few times seems to alleviate that for a bit but it is annoying. It is almost as if the pistons were not always getting retracted back all the way .

I have driven many cars with carbon ceramics, and it has only been the Ferraris that squeal like this . Lambos and McLarens are whisper quiet on brakes in comparison from my experience .... ( no reason to have any of those over any Ferrari though IMHO lol )


Voy

 

Good feedback guys.

I can tell you that the squeal is not from too light of driving. It came on hard after a track day at road America.
And has never ceased.
Ferrari dealers have tried to remedy but no luck. (Scuffing pads and re greasing the backing.)
I have one performance shop in Orlando telling me it's the rotors..
Ferrari dealer telling me it's the pads.

And the girodisc engineers telling me to buy steel rotors and pads kit, and that ferrari is wrong.

However, Ferrari tells me that steel rotors will void my warranty, and they will not work with the 488 computer etc.

So I am back to square one.
Comments appreciated

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Ravers, pad squeal is the pad vibrating so make sure the pad spring clip ...sits on top of the pad....is very tight against the pad. Also how many track days on the pads? Have you installed new pads to see if they squeal? I am assuming you are using stock pads....?....or?

My brakes will squeal very very slightly some times. My 488 hasn’t been tracked (yet). My 2018 Porsche gt3 with pccb brakes squealed on and off and it was tracked. After I washed the car and flushed out the rotor disc holes and washed brakes and inside wheels and all with soap and water the squeal would go away for a while.

 

Give the Pagid RSC1 pads a try.

As for warranty if you go steel? Riiiiiight. Ask the dealer who told you to go spin. The only thing steel discs can void a warranty on, is your calipers. And computer not working? Your dealer is pretty imaginative. Does he even know how many Challenge cars are running steel? Lol.

But before throwing those heavy steel anchors on your wheels, try the Pagid pads.

E4580RSC1 for fronts
E4581RSC1 for rears

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My 488 had break noise from about 2,000 miles on. Only when the car got a little heat in it, meaning say 20 minutes of driving or more with a few decent stops.

I have had several cars with carbon ceramics including another Ferrari. The 488's noise was a more specific rotational noise.

I sent mine to the dealer for a oil change and had them look at the brakes. They reported they couldn't duplicate the issue. Come to find out they drove it around the parking lot a couple times.

So I put another couple thousand miles on it and the noise got progressively worse. To the point it could be heard over the engine at full throttle, stereo fully turned up and other cars around you and all. I could hear it OVER the sound of a V10 Performante at full throttle next to me. So back to the dealer. This time I told them your going to have to drive it for a few minutes and let the car warm up. Bingo they could duplicate it. They unwillingly finally admitted it wasn't normal. The fun was about to begin. They had my car for a month. Took the break system and all 4 corners of the car apart 5 separate times. Sanding pads, cleaning rotors, mic'ing the rotors and so on. Found nothing. Ferrari north america had to get involved and reluctantly put new pads on my car. This car had 3-4k miles roughly at that point. The noise went away.

About 3,000 miles later around the 6-7k range I noticed VERY faintly the noise return. VERY quiet though compared. The very next day we took one of our mountain drives and I was coming off a long stretch at around 140mph and went for the brakes. Nothing, nobody home. It was like they were not even hooked up. It felt like a peddle feels when you get into ABS and it pulsates however it's like it pulled the pressure and never came back. I got through the turn be hard down shifting and a full push then slide through the corner where immediately the super loud brake noises returned. This car was a ticking time bomb. I traded it and haven't returned to the brand. I have brought this up a few times on this board and I have had numerous people reach out to me privately with similar experiences in both 458 and 488 cars.

What was most interesting in my cars brakes issues is that even around town the front brakes were generating so much heat it was showing over 150 degrees at the TPMS sensors. INSIDE the wheel. The heat off the front breaks was insane. Just in town. Driving the car hard it was even worse. Ferrari would never officially comment on that. But my theory was teh rotors were dragging OR the car was applying some level of brake pressure.

To make things even more interesting.... this car had a small fire prior to all of this. Another thing Ferrari basically swept under the rug and had my car a month for. It had less than 2,000 miles on it when that happened. My car was a 2017 car that spent 3 of the 9 months of my ownership at the dealer.

 

Here's how I fixed brake noise on my Ferrari cars (all of them having come with ceramic rotors as standard):

1- Power wash all the wheels, using a 3,000 PSI machine, not the 1,200 PSI electric garbage they sell at Home Depot. This gets rid of all the old brake dust, which is a big source of the noise.
2- DO NOT USE any type of "wheel cleaner" as they are extremely harsh on ceramic rotors. Only use the same soap/car wash on the entire car for cleaning the rims and rotors. Once again, DO NOT USE any type of "wheel cleaner". Use a dedicated brush for cleaning the wheels.
3- DO NOT USE any type of "tire shine" whatsoever. NONE. Almost all of them are silicone based and they are also harmful on ceramic rotors. The only type I use is from 303 Rubber cleaner, as it's water based, I even use that with an applicator pad to prevent it from getting on the rotors.

Once I started power washing my rims/wheels using the above, no more brake squeal. Keep in mind I wash my cars periodically, just put on some water resistant gloves and you're all set.

You're welcome.