Water pump defects? | FerrariChat

Water pump defects?

Discussion in '308/328' started by AndruL, Feb 28, 2020.

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  1. AndruL

    AndruL Karting

    Apr 4, 2018
    234
    Full Name:
    AndruL
    Purchased this WP from a well known vendor in NJ, USA. I am hesitant to install it due to these craters, voids in the casting. What do you think?
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  2. absostone

    absostone F1 Veteran
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    Jul 28, 2008
    9,178
    looks like a rebuilt pump to me. Once its gasketed it would be fine
     
  3. thorn

    thorn F1 Rookie
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    Aug 7, 2012
    3,322
    Tallahassee, FL
    What do they ones they reject look like?
     
  4. absostone

    absostone F1 Veteran
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    Jul 28, 2008
    9,178
    asking me?
     
  5. miketuason

    miketuason F1 World Champ
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    Feb 24, 2006
    15,517
    Cerritos, CA.
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    Mike
    Is that the new style impeller?
     
  6. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
    5,561
    Central NJ
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    Dominick
    Send it back for another

    Sent from my moto g(7) using Tapatalk
     
    Milkshaker0007 likes this.
  7. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    33,736
    Austin TX
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    Brian Crall
    Thats what we get now. Looks like it is made in India. I just rebuild the old ones provided it is one of the versions that allows me to use a one piece seal.
     
    Martin308GTB and lm2504me like this.
  8. ferrariowner

    ferrariowner Formula 3

    Feb 21, 2014
    1,109
    Mansfield, TX
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    Ron
    Poor quality casting. Think they good quality bearings and seal?
     
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  9. AndruL

    AndruL Karting

    Apr 4, 2018
    234
    Full Name:
    AndruL
    Yes very poor casting. Not sure about bearings, seals
     
  10. AndruL

    AndruL Karting

    Apr 4, 2018
    234
    Full Name:
    AndruL
    Yes, I had parts on the way to rebuild the old one.
     
  11. AndruL

    AndruL Karting

    Apr 4, 2018
    234
    Full Name:
    AndruL
    Sent the Supplier several emails requesting just that but no reply. I'll call them Monday to give them another chance before I go public with this and scratch them off my list
     
    flash32 likes this.
  12. AndruL

    AndruL Karting

    Apr 4, 2018
    234
    Full Name:
    AndruL
    Yes, Mike. New and improved impeller so they claimed and advertised.
     
  13. waymar

    waymar Formula 3

    Sep 2, 2008
    1,321
    Northeast, PA - USA
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    Wayne Martin
    Any thoughts on rebuilding your old pump?
     
  14. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    Jun 11, 2004
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    Nothing to worry about. You happen to be able to see the imperfections because they were close to the machined surface. But if they were below the surface and you could not see them would you be worried? Would you subject every cast part you buy to ultrasonic testing? I've seen worse on Ferrari castings.
     
    Ferraripilot likes this.
  15. derekw

    derekw Formula 3
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    Sep 7, 2010
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    Derek W
    The casting is no worse than the Ferrari castings of that period but as others have suggested it may indicate their attention to quality in other areas— tolerances, seals, bearings etc.
     
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  16. Martin308GTB

    Martin308GTB F1 Rookie

    Jan 22, 2003
    4,212
    Black Forest Germany
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    Martin N.
    And with a bit of metal cutting work it's even possible to convert the earliest two piece seal versions to a one piece seal pump.
    Had a thread about it many years ago. Using a widely available modern state-of-art - and inexpensive- one piece seal guaranteed german engineered - And- made (!)

    Best from Germany
    Martin
     
  17. dave80gtsi

    dave80gtsi Formula 3
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    Nov 3, 2003
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    Dave Meredith
    While I do acknowledge that many folks feel this to be an overkill reaction, I bought and installed the Nick's Forza water pump a number of years ago. And I have had peace of mind ever since.
     
  18. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
    Owner Project Master

    May 10, 2006
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    John!
    Porous aluminum casting marks like that are often only seen after machine work has been done. It can be run just fine as none of the porosity goes from edge to edge, effecting sealing. Use Hondabond on the gasket and machined surface.
     
  19. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    Brian Crall
    I disagree. Ferrari castings are quite good. You have to go back to the mid 50s to see that.
     
  20. thorn

    thorn F1 Rookie
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    Aug 7, 2012
    3,322
    Tallahassee, FL
    Ironically, we don't use Hondabond on Honda water pumps.
     
  21. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    33,736
    Austin TX
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    Brian Crall
    If the casting flaws are limited to that and there is no reason to believe they are. It is a sign of a poorly made part at the very best.

    Ferrari never needed sealant on water pumps. Never needed it. No good reason we should now unless we accept substandard as the new norm.
     
  22. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    33,736
    Austin TX
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    Brian Crall
    And Ferrari never used sealant either.
     
  23. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    Jun 11, 2004
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    John Kreskovsky
    Such voids are typically found near surfaces which are at the upper surfaces of the molds where contaminants and gasses get trapped in the mold. They don't necessarily indicate a poorly made part or that voids are present throughout the casting.
     
  24. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
    Owner Project Master

    May 10, 2006
    17,171
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    John!
    I fully agree, but it just it what it is these days, even with major brands.

    Below is a pic of a NEW German made Mahle 92mm for a Porsche RSR engine. Nikasil and the works. .002 clearance measured well with all pistons and liners, no problem. These are about $5k-$6k a set with pistons. Note the pitting which was present in two of the liners. When I contacted Mahle about this, they stated they allow for a certain amount and guaranteed no running issues. These aren't exactly cheap parts from a cheap company. It simply is what everyone seems to be ok with these days. The new normal sort of sucks.
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  25. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

    Jun 14, 2008
    6,685
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    Mike 996
    Hmmm...when we were building competition/performance engines, there is no way, No Way, NO WAY we would ever have used a liner in that condition. We would have immediately returned it to the manufacturer as defective. If that pitting was in the cylinder wall of an engine block, we would have bored/honed to the minimum oversize necessary to clean it up and fitted the appropriate size pistons/rings for the new bore.

    Tell Mahle you appreciate that the liners meet their specs but you would prefer to exchange them for replacements WITHOUT pits!
     

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