Not long after your car was built there was a design change in the gears and later gears will be incompatible. Nothing else of interest. It may wind up being best to get the available 1st driven gear from Ferrari if that is indeed the correct one. Get it apart and inspected ASAP. Available today doesn't mean available next month.
Could very well be. Ferrari has a long history of getting parts from whoever will do business with them. It was not always a matter of choice. Small demanding companies do not always get to pick and choose who their suppliers are.
So you're saying that there is no aftermarket set that will replace both the drive and driven 1st gear set? I understand that only that one gear will fit with the smaller drive gear but aren't these the temperamental ones that people are upgrading? I understood it that you could change them as a pair, is that not the case?
Yes there are aftermarket parts. Pay your money and take your chances and hope the parts arrive someday. The only one I know of is a train wreck. Temperamental? What? Be specific.
My understanding is that the smaller drive gear breaks. Is this not the case? I assumed I would need to change both. I just want to do it right the first time and I assumed a set of updated gears might be a solution. Do all Testarossa and 512 gears use the same pinion and drive shafts? I am trying to understand what makes mine not swappable. If it isn't, so be it. I just want to know why. If you would, could you send me a message and let me know who to steer away from? Really appreciate the education, I hope to give back in other areas soon. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Temperamental isn't a word to describe that. Its a design issue. No reason to think a new one won't break. It isn't a cumulative failure. Updated suggests a design improvement. There is no design improvement available unless you want to buy 2 new shafts and all new gears. I am pretty familiar with the gears available and I'd never use them if OE was available...and OE is available.
Colotti (sp?) said they would make me any gear I wanted for these gearboxes. I had debated having new gears made available but the dog ring is a drag to deal with. I never took Colotti up on the offer but its something to consider if you can't find anything.
There is a very good company right here in Austin who will do it too and they do (not dog ring, technically called "Syncro clutch ring) the syncro clutch rings in house too. Beautiful work but really spendy. They are the ones with rights from ZF to produce the reproduction GT40 transaxles. If you will commit to 50 parts each the price is doable. 1 piece is crazy. Ferrari has 1st gears. Id buy one.
thank you brian for the explanation I asked here in this forum already about a dog ring but nobody could explain. not even in a technical dictionary I could found it. now I know I think you could separate the synchro clutch ring from the old gear and laser weld it to the new one. the problem is to make those rings. gears are not such a big problem.
I suggested purchasing a gearbox is another option and parting it out. I haven't priced boxes lately but it might be an option if he's coming up empty handed on loose gears.
https://www.google.com/search?q=doog+rings+in+transmission&oq=doog+rings+in+transmission&aqs=chrome..69i57j0.12199j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Last time I did that I took 6 gear boxes apart and not one that was useable. Ran up a big bill and came up empty. It was only after we had spent a majority of my original repair estimate that the client finally saw the wisdom of repairing what we had. I was against the idea then but now I just refuse to even go down that road. I hate my time being wasted even when I am being paid for it.
Well that sucks. I bought one from Ferrparts for another project and it was perfect, came with the bellhousing and drop gear case, rear mount etc. 10,000 mile car.
newman, I was looking for dog rings and not for doog rings so brian explained right with syncro clutch ring and now I know it. so learning always more
Update: Made an aluminum 'mirror' so I could read the gear number. The physical number on the gear is 119798. I would bet money on it, BUT that number doesn't come up anywhere I have looked. I went back and read it three different times. You can see it clearly, albeit in a reflection with my mirror tool. What does that mean? I know the small gear is 119792 but it doesn't associate with any gears I've seen (Closest in physical number is a 119805 which would make sense) I'm baffled.
Why are you trying to find these things yourself? Give the numbers, all of them including the VIN and the gearbox number to a good Ferrari parts man. Their system will make sense of it. Numbers get replaced and no longer exist. Their system will find what you need. Currently 119792 goes with 132143. Those numbers are so far off each other it is obvious one came out long after the other. When Ferrari supersedes a part or goes to a different supplier or a host of other reasons numbers change and you don't have the resources to make sense of it. Let the parts men do their job. You are not dealing with a Chevy. That is the transmission number
Very nice stuff. Here is an observation for all: I have owned 4 TR’s. One was a James Patterson/Norwood Twin Turbo 750hp car. Never, ever ran anything but the original stock rear differential. Ridiculous how abusive drivers are on the TR. Come on, this is not a 2 ton dump truck guys. I drive my cars spirited after I release the clutch and take off. Some should learn how to drive a stick car or buy something with an automatic... Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
I agree but to be fair at this point most TRs have had a lot of owners not to mention many had several in very little time because they were being flipped. In those cases they were often treated like they were stolen. I am lucky, ours had 900 miles on it when we got it I I know who put on every single mile. Owners now are paying the price for what their cars went through years ago.
Some progress....I purchased a set of first and second gears (both showed wear) and should be here this week. Took a while to find them but I feel good about them. I had contacted several dealers/parts houses and come up empty handed. Algar out and out said they couldn't help. The part new wasn't available when I went to order (even though I was told it was), and the used piece was pretty spooky, given a stock one is what failed. I went with the GT Car Parts set. May not be everyone's solution but it is my best option. They will be here tomorrow. Bill was fantastic on the phone, looked up my gear numbers (only parts man that would help me and decode what I had) and verified that the aftermarket set WOULD FIT and WOULD WORK just fine in my gearbox. Money back assurance. The sizes of the gear PAIRS didn't change, even if the angles and teeth profiles did. These will fit right in. If they don't I will update the group and share why they don't. This was very confusing to get a good answer on and now I have one. Thank you to those that helped me decode. FWIW, that strange number that I had in my gearbox was in fact a Ferrari part that shouldn't have been in that late of a case. I have a feeling it was swapped later, but after talking with the first owner and I also found a panel truck that almost fits the cradle perfectly. I will weld on four U shaped channels and weld a nut to the bottom of each one with a pass through hole. That way I can use a bolt to fine-tune any angle needed to reinstall the cradle. Used a coupon and it was delivered in a few days; solid solution. https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200696303_200696303?isSearch=57481 The BIG news of the weekend was taking the driver side driveshaft out.....when I went to pull the safety plate tabs back with a screwdriver, the ENTIRE output stub shifted around freely..yeah. Cracked diff for sure. Now the question is whether it damaged the covers. I learned that the side cover revisions moved the O-ring seal groove further in-board on the later diff covers, and seemed to save them from failing as often. This interests me, sort of chicken-and-egg going on. I wonder how many covers crack and then diffs let go, versus how many diffs go and take out covers. Anyway, hoping to save mine. Will continue to update!
Great to hear you've made a few solid steps forward. GT Carparts sells the Australian sourced diff too, I forget who makes it. They have always been really nice and give information freely when I've dealt with them. I look forward to your first hand experience with this source of the gears and I'll be watching for a happy ending. Good luck and nice work!
Makes sense Brian. I have seen owners drive these cars like GT mustangs and shift them the same. Its just plain ignorance which equates to abusiveness.
Mustangs are famous for blowing up diffs and gear boxes too but no one cares because it is a cheap fix. One has to wonder what people are thinking when they drive an exotic with so much weight on the rear wheels and big sticky tires that way?
I went with Newman's diff that uses Ferrari internals. The Australian diff probably great, Might cost more than Newman. Someone installed the Auzi diff and didn't like the limited stiff. My Newman diff with original guts works perfect. Also my original diff was ok. 1st gear was the noisy problem. I caught it all before it caused any expensive damage.
