Value of rebuilt 308 exhaust manifolds? | FerrariChat

Value of rebuilt 308 exhaust manifolds?

Discussion in '308/328' started by Doc Chaz, Mar 10, 2020.

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  1. Doc Chaz

    Doc Chaz Karting

    Mar 27, 2014
    102
    west of Fresno, CA
    My 1978 GTB had an ignition failure resulting in a massive backfire that blew a hole through the front (left) exhaust manifold. My mechanic had a spare in the shop but it wouldn't work because the factory welds had cracks and leaked. He bought a replacement (for $750+) but it also leaked badly. I took all three and had them expertly re-welded and pressure tested (by Babco in Fresno, CA) using argon gas in water. The original is back on the car but I would like to sell the other two. They need to be wrapped in muffler packing and have their heat shields put back on. I guarantee them to be free of leaks, in fact better than new.

    So what price should I put on them? Thanks, Chaz
     
  2. Doc Chaz

    Doc Chaz Karting

    Mar 27, 2014
    102
    west of Fresno, CA
    Hey! This ain't a classified ad. It's a question. I was jes a figgerin 1) that if a cracked, front exhaust manifold cost 780 sum-odd bucks n 2) they's hard to find in good condition*, then one o ya'll experts here might knows the value of em when professionally rebuilt. Or maybe ya'll moe focused on purty girls than tech-related questions?

    *BTW, the shop that made the originals for Ferrari was bush league. They used very thin material and the welding weakened the tubing. No wonder they leak after 40 years.
    Chaz
     
  3. Nuvolari

    Nuvolari F1 Veteran
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    Sep 3, 2002
    6,396
    Toronto / SoCal
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    Rob C.
    A welded original header without the heat shielding is a $100-$200 proposition. Unfortunately the moment it is welded its value is decimated regardless of how good the welds are.
     
  4. GordonC

    GordonC F1 Rookie
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    Aug 28, 2005
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    Calgary, AB, Canada
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    Gordon
    Agreed, a welded original header is not worth much. My 84 QV blew out the rear header after I'd had it a year, it turned out that it had been previously re-welded on 3 of the 4 primaries. Multiple failures beyond the first. I sure wouldn't pay for or re-install a re-welded OEM header after seeing this one. I installed Tubi replacement headers, zero problems.
     
  5. Dino246gt

    Dino246gt Formula 3

    Mar 26, 2007
    1,029
    Winnipeg, Manitoba,
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    Dennis Ezmerlian
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    I had my originals ceramic coated inside and out, the heat shields were rattling and this seemed to be the best fix. Not sure it fits this thread but a picture is always good, not? 308GTBi:
     
  6. Doc Chaz

    Doc Chaz Karting

    Mar 27, 2014
    102
    west of Fresno, CA
    Yes, your comments fit the thread! Now, is that coating really sufficient in cooling the surface? I hope it works for you. Regarding my extra parts, I have the heat shields but haven't put them on so that the repairs are visible. I can afford to store these.

    It appears that some of you think that originality means everything yet many here write about all the add-ons and changes made to their babies. It seems inconsistent to me. Be that as it may, and with great trepidation, I will tell you that Ferrari quality control during the mid to late 1970s was poor, and headers were no exception; thin tubing with light welds prone to corroding over time. I suggest that rewelding this thin, rusty tubing is tricky and requires an expert, not your buddy at the muffler shop. In order to repair this fragile tubing, stainless sleeves were used to cover the original tubing and then welded to the manifold plate
     

    Attached Files:

  7. Doc Chaz

    Doc Chaz Karting

    Mar 27, 2014
    102
    west of Fresno, CA
    To complete my comment:

    WHY??? No offense intended folks but it appears that some of you think originality means everything yet many here write about all the add-ons and changes made to their babies. This seems inconsistent to me. Be that as it may, and with great trepidation, I will tell you that Ferrari quality control during the mid to late 1970s was relatively poor, and headers were no exception; having thin tubing prone to corroding over time. I suggest that rewelding this thin, rusty tubing is tricky and requires an expert, not your buddy at the muffler shop. Because of the fragility of the "original" tubing in 2 of 3 units View attachment 2908355 View attachment 2908350 View attachment 2908355 , stainless sleeves were used to cover the "original" material, welded to the manifold plate at one end and the thicker, undamaged "original" tubing 1.5-2 inches away. After the application of high temp paint and muffler packing (the "original" was asbestos), the "original" heat shields halves put on. The repair is better than the "original" and I challenge anyone to see the difference now that it's completed and back on the car. Regarding my spare headers, I have the heat shields but haven't put them on so that the repairs are visible. I approved and observed every step of this project and, because this isn't a classified, I won't list my cost. I can afford to store these. Someday...

    Yes Dino, your comments fit the thread! Now, is that coating really sufficient in cooling the surface? I hope it works for you and I hope your fuel hoses are sound. BTW, the heat shields tended to rattle. The Italiano "fix" was to beat on them with a hammer until they made contact with the packing. I learned that from Bruno Borri who silenced my rattles 37 years ago.

    Attached are a couple of photos I took during the project. Half a stainless steel sleeve is visible in one pic. View attachment 2908350
     
  8. GordonC

    GordonC F1 Rookie
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    Aug 28, 2005
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    Here's my rear QV header that had been re-welded multiple times, until it cracked completely around on the #2 primary just below a re-weld point. I wouldn't bother re-welding an OEM header once it's cracked, it will just keep happening. Due to the angle and curvature of the QV headers, I don't see how a 2" sleeve to cover the flange end of the primary tubes would fit.

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    Originality on an exhaust header isn't as big a deal - look at the F355, F360, F430, where header replacements with aftermarket components are relatively common.

    Here's that cracked multiple re-welded rear header alongside the Tubi replacement:

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    You can see how the flange on the Tubi header is vastly superior to the Ferrari header flange shown in my first picture:

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  9. i-velocita

    i-velocita F1 Rookie
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    Sep 9, 2006
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    I sold a factory header with re-welded collector for $400 a couple of years ago.
     
  10. i-velocita

    i-velocita F1 Rookie
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    Btw the local Ferrari dealer re-welded the collector on one of my headers over 30 years ago and it has lasted.
     
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  11. thorn

    thorn F1 Rookie
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    Aug 7, 2012
    3,322
    Tallahassee, FL
    I have no issue with a properly welded header. Having said that, I don't think it will bring a premium in the secondhand market.
     
  12. derekw

    derekw Formula 3
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    Sep 7, 2010
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    As you say Doc, originals have thin tubing. Screw originality, I'd get Tubis :)
     
  13. Doc Chaz

    Doc Chaz Karting

    Mar 27, 2014
    102
    west of Fresno, CA
    My stainless steel sleeves are just like the Tubis. Gordon, the guy who welded your originals didn't know welding. The tubes are burnt thin where they attach to the plate and welding at that point only makes them weaker. Derek has a good point. How much are Tubis ?
     
  14. GordonC

    GordonC F1 Rookie
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    Aug 28, 2005
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    Your sleeves are longer than the Tubi cast flange, but they do look well done. Mine was beyond that point! Certainly multiple crappy welds.

    Re welded collectors, that is a different story than welding at the flange, even if just because the operating temperature of the header at the collector will be significantly cooler than at the exhaust ports flange, so it will have less thermal stress.

    When I bought the Tubi set in 2014, I was seeing quotes of $800 USD for a used OEM header, or $1300-$1400 for a new OEM replacement header. The Tubi headers were $1250 each - cheaper than a new OEM. I purchased them from T Rutlands.
     
  15. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Dec 6, 2002
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    Bubba
    Those TUBIs are well made…...

    I've had issues with blown headers.
    It was an ignition problem though.....

    GLWS...
     
  16. ragtop1

    ragtop1 F1 Rookie
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    Nov 11, 2006
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    Larry Warren
    new tubi headers are ~ $2000 per bank
     
  17. Doc Chaz

    Doc Chaz Karting

    Mar 27, 2014
    102
    west of Fresno, CA
    "I've had issues with blown headers. It was an ignition problem though....."

    Precisely, and that can be an expensive repair involving headers, cats and fouled muffler.

    $2,000 per side for Tubis, huh? Thank you because that answers my original question. My repaired (front) headers are guaranteed not to leak. They might blow up farther down like my original did but that's another problem.

    This turned out to be a pretty good thread so now let's get back to girls and staying healthy!
     
  18. ragtop1

    ragtop1 F1 Rookie
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    ok , girls it is. Tubi installer
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