Hi All, It pains me to do this, but feel that I must for the benefit of anyone on this forum potentially interested in this particular car, which was in an accident that was not reported to carfax. https://www.monacoautocollection.com/inventory/ferrari/430 scuderia/00-166647/ This car (ZFFKW64A690166647) was in our possession for roughly 9 years until April 2018, when it was sold to its new owner. The new owner arranged for shipping, and within 24 hours of delivery of the car to him, he was in an accident and sustained some rather substantial front end damage. Of course, the kicker is he had no insurance on the car, and from what he communicated to us, he intended to pay for the repair out of pocket and have his "friend's" shop do the repair. I have a few pics of the accident, but would prefer not to post publicly. Again, I hate to deliver such a story about a car -- especially one that I loved so much -- but want to share just in case anyone on this forum is looking at the car. -Derek
Kudos to you for sharing relevant data to a would be buyer. I wish all sellers were as honest as you!
Can the experts here see any clues to the existence of the repairs in the images on the ad? Would such repaired damage be detectable by a visual inspection? How would you spot it? There is a close up image of the front trunk on the ad, but I wouldn't have a clue how to detect any signs of a rebuild here. Knowing what I do from this post, I would maybe say the paint looks less than clear at the point where reflecting the fluorescent light, but that's only because I'm looking desperately for something. Is it possible that even a proper PPI just wouldn't detect such repairs? We don't have such a thorough system as Carfax here in the UK (though it seems Carfax isn't foolproof) so who knows what horrors some of the cars for sale here have been through.
One thing you could do if you are so inclined, is send the selling dealership the pics and the story. That way they can't claim to "not know" of any accidents. You have already gone above and beyond by posting this--kudos!
Thank you, Romo. I once purchased a car (not the car mentioned in this thread) and later found out it had been in an accident as well. While I still loved the car, I would have preferred to have known before buying. It is definitely a challenge to spot any damage in the current photos, and I am unsure of what a PPI would reveal. I can only speculate about the actual repair, but based on the photos I received of the accident damage, the entire front bumper must have been replaced, as well as the front right fender, and possibly the right headlight. What that means for any internals under those parts I am not sure. As for carfax, it is certainly not fool proof. Again, the owner who purchased the car from us had not placed insurance on the car at the time of the accident, and so by paying for the repair out of pocket, it seems he was able to circumvent carfax reporting. I have considered doing this but haven't as of yet. I am entirely unfamiliar with this dealership, and they purchased the car from the gentleman who owned the car after us who was involved in the accident. I am unaware if they are knowledgable about the accident.
If you're going to make a post like this, then you should also post the pictures- and if it was just the front bumper. fender and maybe headlight while it certainly would effect the value of the car, it doesn't seem like a "major accident" to worry about.
I hear what you're saying, and have considered that. If anyone is interested in the car or wants to see the photo's, feel free to PM me.
I'm not doubting you, but no one needed to PM you for you to make a thread saying this about the car, so why do they need to pm you for pics? you already made the thread and said the car has been in an accident.
I respectfully disagree with you as the OP was obviously hesitant in even creating this thread and if he elects to not share any additional data via this thread then that's his prerogative. He served the FCHAT community very well and I for one will let him decide what specifics he does, or doesn't wan't, to share on FCHAT to any potential buyers in a private venue and shouldn't be impugned for making that statement IMO.
Man, what a shame. It's difficult to imagine you owned this Scud for nine (9) years and put only 3700 miles on it. You, Sir, have incredible will power! Thank you for bringing this information out. So...... from the current for sale listing dealer's "About Us" website (bold type added): "ABOUT MONACO AUTO COLLECTION Growing up in their father’s car repair business which specialized in European and Italian exotics, two brothers from their early teens, learned what it meant to take care of the “distinguished customer”. They learned what it meant to serve customers that had a passion for fine automobiles. These customers did not buy a German car or an Italian car because they needed transportation from point A to point B; they bought these unique automobiles because how they got from point A to point B, was just as import as getting there. As the brothers moved into management, the service business became more than just the place to service and repair German and Italian cars. The business gained notoriety for their in depth “pre-purchase inspections”, as well as performance modification that started to become popular for their ever growing customer base. The desire to one day own and drive these fine automobiles, continued to grow as the brothers scaled the business up. The passion for that unique or rare spec variety grew as well. The brothers knew that just owning a German or Italian car wasn’t enough; it had to be one that was unique in color or configuration. This began the relentless pursuit of searching for that unicorn–a car that couldn’t be purchased without extensive searching."
Please do send me the information related to the BAT auction for this Scud. Before bidding I would need to see any documents/pics which are not being posted.
Dereck Thanks for the public service announcement. I’m very glad you posted. When you’re spending your hard earned money....you should truly know what you’re getting. Thanks
@jtr2kwl I would like to receive the pictures by PM as well, I am following the auction on BAT as well. Thank you!
The wrecked picture is on BAT...... here they are. This should be reported to CarFax. The car should be marked so full transparency of this car is available in the future. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
It's not too bad and indeed it should be in the carfax, although diligent buyers should be able to find the information. Thank you!
I am the owner of this car. I just got the car back from Miller Motorcars. I had a PPI done, and had them perform an analysis of the OP's claimed damage (I provided the pictures to aid their review). Their feedback was, "there is no way this is the same car shown in the pictures". They went through and showed me all the original, from factory, markings behind the bumper, fender, etc. I am happy to provide the reports to any prospective buyers in the future, and I would also authorize Miller to speak directly to anyone interested. The 2nd owner, who is the uncle of the OP, had the passenger side fender repaired by Miller after he 'dinged' it. The only evidence of the fender being touched, is from Miller repairing that ding. I have all related records. Regardless of the OP's good intentions, he spread incorrect information about the car. And since it's on the internet, I have to deal with this thread being out there forever. I don't personally know any of these people, but unfortunately I've had to deal with their story for the last five months.
Michael, I must respectfully decline your request to delete this thread. My original post was made with the intent to inform prospective buyers—including you--that the car has a history that has not been reported. In fact, I made the original post prior to your purchase of the car. Had you conducted due diligence you would have found this thread, and while I cannot speculate as to how, I imagine that this information would have affected your decision to buy the car. I did not spread incorrect information about the car, in fact I take that accusation very seriously. I honestly wish that you had referenced this thread before buying. Similarly, I have made no claims as to the current quality or condition of the car or any repairs that may have taken place. The car is now a 5 owner car, including 3 owners since just April 2018. Clearly, it has bounced around quite a bit during this time, as evidenced by the Carfax report you posted on BAT. I must also point out that PPI’s—even those conducted by reputable shops such as Miller—are not foolproof. Can they confirm that the car was never in an accident, or can they merely confirm that the car does not appear to have been in an accident? Perhaps any repairs conducted were very well done and thus do not show any signs of an accident. If that is the case, I’m sure any prospective buyer would find comfort knowing that the car is “as intended.” To that effect, you mention the repair to the “ding” on the passenger side fender, a repair that Miller themselves conducted. Yet, this damage went unreported as well. Curious, isn’t it? Again, this thread was in no way made to impact the sale of your car. Rather, as it was posted before your purchase of the car, it was intended specifically to inform and protect you. As you mentioned, this thread is in the public domain, and so you could have read this information before purchasing the car; I truly wish you had. If you had done your due diligence, you wouldn’t be in this position. Best of luck
You continue to miss the point. Your post has become gospel simply because you volunteered a story. Your pictures lack actual evidence (VIN) as to what car was crashed. What I am suggesting is that maybe, just maybe, someone was attempting to scam your uncle. I know everyone in this world is honest, but just consider there could be that one dishonest person. You claim to be a noble person as evidenced by what drove you to post this thread. But why didn’t you volunteer your uncle’s damage to the car when he sold it? Curious, isn't it? If you truly cared about fellow Ferrari owners and potential buyers, shouldn't you have brought that to light? That’s not a real question, I’m being facetious. Much like I left it with your uncle (and you) on the email today, I am not looking to debate this any further. All I was after is keeping it open to the possibility that there's more to the story. If/when I eventually sell this car, I will invite anyone to inspect the car in person. I have nothing to hide and I've been overly transparent with everyone I have spoken to.
If the best alternative explanation is a “scam,” then it sounds like regardless, there is a still a story here, no? Is there a possibility it was a scam? Maybe! But you weren’t there, you weren’t the one having the conversations with Owner #3. We were. And based on those conversations and the information we had, we made the decision to share that information. We acted in a way that we felt was reasonable at the time given the information we had and the conversations we had with Owner #3. The “ding” to the front passenger fender was reported to the individual who purchased the car (Owner #3) prior to finalizing the deal. That information was divulged freely and openly to the buyer. We had nothing to hide and were fully transparent as well. At that point, it was his responsibility to divulge that to a prospective buyer. I made the post regarding Owner #3’s accident as he EXPLICITLY informed us of his intent to hide the damage so he could sell the car ASAP, and get his money out. It was his extremely clear and explicit intent to hide the damage from future owners that made us feel we had to share that information. You ask that we keep it open to the possibility that there’s more to the story, and yet here you are, years after the fact, trying to piece together the information from indirect sources. And now you’re telling us (and everyone on Fchat) that you believe you know better than we do, the people who had direct knowledge and involvement in the events that transpired years before you knew this particular car even existed. That, is what is disingenuous. And I will not pull a thread that I posted before you had any involvement with this car, simply because you are the current owner and are trying to sell. So likewise, I ask that you keep it open to the possibility that there is more to the story than even you may be aware. You seem like a decent guy, and you handled the situation extremely well on BAT. I truly hope that you’re able to get your price. I think this particular car is one of the finest examples of a Scuderia, and I was heartbroken to hear what happened to it. No one is questioning that you’ve been completely clear and transparent, and I believe you will be completely clear and transparent with anyone you speak to if/when you decide to sell the car.
