488 - Pistas selling for less than MSRP... | Page 12 | FerrariChat

488 Pistas selling for less than MSRP...

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by 09Scuderia, Mar 27, 2020.

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  1. exoticcardreamer

    exoticcardreamer Formula 3

    Dec 9, 2014
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    doesitmatter
    I tried to make it work with SV, SV roadster (ordered both without sitting in a lambo.). I learned my lesson. I didn't order the performante and waited for it to come. Sat in it; it was very uncomfortable and didn't even get out of the parking space.

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  2. Thecadster

    Thecadster F1 Veteran
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    Apr 27, 2017
    6,705
    Aventador is no bueno. I wanted to get an SVJ. I visited my dealer 5 times trying to talk myself into one, but to no avail. That is the one car I could not make work,
     
  3. IloveGT

    IloveGT Formula 3
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    Oct 17, 2015
    2,419
    I eventually lamented that Lambo is for the folks that are shorter and have better backs. I thought I would break the windshield while getting out of the HP spider and have my scalp chopped off while driving it. Too bad, because I liked the car too.
     
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  4. dustman

    dustman F1 Veteran
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    Jun 12, 2007
    8,930
    I really miss my HP Spyder. Tried to get it back recently. The time away makes me forget how uncomfortable it was. Coup has much more leg room, and seat tilt. Not the spyder. Sigh.
     
  5. wthensler

    wthensler F1 Rookie
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    Apr 27, 2015
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    William
    Lambo = triangle

    Ferrari = series of bubbles

    I’ve given up trying to force fit myself into a Lambo. Gorgeous cars, not a one even remotely feels right to me, and some are downright torture.

    The 458, now that’s a car with perfect ergonomics. I’m 5’-11”, long legs.
     
  6. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie
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    #281 Shadowfax, Apr 4, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2020
    This is the elephant in the room. And this is the real dilemma for F8 especially when one stirs the senses significantly more than the other yet in most ways is still as equally DD'able as the sports luxury version (F8).

    Reading the usual suspects still attempting to justify to themselves that F8 is much the same car for less money serves only to continually indict the fact they have never driven a Pista, because if they had, they would scrap any notion of using affordability as being any form of legitimate excuse to why they chose the lesser priced variant over the more expensive.

    The clear differences in how each drive place the F8 in a different category, more in the prestige sports luxury segment (such as like an Aston or Bentley say) and not as any alternative to a Pista, and it really only takes some seat time in both to arrive at that very simple yet glaringly obvious conclusion.

    And its not that an F8 buyer should feel bad or inferior about the situation as the F8 for what it is, is indeed a great offering in that segment. But to think for a second it is going to stir the senses like a Pista then forget it - no point trying to kid yourselves about that as it's not gonna happen. It'd be like a turbo S owner continually trying to convince themselves and others that their car is as equally exciting to drive as a Gt2 just because the basic engine and shape of the car is the same. No point....waste of time really.

    Now back to topic why arent Pista's not selling? I think they still are aren't they? Probably not as fast now due to corona and the market conditions and this may knock prices around a bit for a while but i suspect price wise Pista will be less knocked around than other cars.
     
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  7. jacinto jardine

    jacinto jardine Formula Junior

    Jan 16, 2011
    521
    australia
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    Fly 458
    I know of 3 recent Pista examples through my dealer where customers have had to back out. 2x coupes and a spider, all 3 cars RC and attractively spec'd cars.

    I suspect as this recession transitions into depression there will be more examples, never have we seen a buyers market like now and it will deteriorate further, no question. Businesses need customers, stim packages are great but what happens after 3 months if the status quo remains....:(
     
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  8. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
    4,839
    France
    ... and yet according to Ferrari, with the same tyres the F8 is only half a second slower than the Pista around Fiorano - I suspect this difference is due to the only objective factors that are the lower weight and increased downforce of the Pista. And with my narrow mind I cannot help thinking all the ostentatious drama of the Pista is pointless except for flattering the happy Pista buyers (I have no issue with that btw, it's always nice to see happy cars enthousiasts).
    It reminds me of the Scuderia vs 458 debate - many Scuderia owners pointed out that the Scuderia was a totally different car, rawer, purer and so on - and the 458 just a car for cruising. And yes one could tell immediately the difference when driving a Scud or a 458, but actually the 458 is the better car for me, and on a track it is as efficient as a Scud - without all the showing off.
    I know I am uninformed because I never drove a Pista, but I drove the Scuderia and the 458 - and my guess is that what applies to these is even more true for more recent cars, since the technology development ever allows to achieve more versatility and therefore the differences are more and more artificial.
     
  9. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie
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    #284 Shadowfax, Apr 4, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2020
    And so the struggle for traction continues....

    LVP what I am referring to has nothing to do with times or whether there is a 10th of a second difference or 10 second difference. You will understand all of this if and when you ever drive the Pista. At that time then please by all means come and let know all about how this imaginary saving has any relevance whatsoever - whilst keeping the thought in mind that whatever saving you may have thought was advantaged will be well and truly given up and possibly lost ten fold when it comes time to sell the F8. The reality is there is no bargain or, free lunch. Also keep in mind the seats offer the same comfort, the ride is such to where both could be driven city to city in comfort. So in that sense they are the same car. And there in lays the dilemma insofar as where is the actual advantage in owning a significantly less sensational car.

    So can we please go back to topic now?
     
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  10. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
    4,839
    France
    Eventually I did not buy the F8 either, so I am not trying to justify my decisions... and I would have chosen a 458 over a Scuderia (after having driven both), but did actually pick neither.
    Regarding the Pista, I am sure it is awesome - and I do not exclude buying one in the future if prices drop enough (even though being only half a second quicker around a track than a luxury /prestige car may not be an impressive achievement for a track focussed car ;) )
     
  11. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie
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    #286 Shadowfax, Apr 4, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2020
    Honestly you're placing far too much emphasis on times when it won't matter. If what I am saying is troubling some of you guys so much then my best and only advice on this matter is to take advantage of the corona times and pick yourselves up a Pista at a negotiated price whilst you can. There will be cars coming through that won't be taken up and deals will be available that were never thought possible a few months ago. Take the bath on the 488 and move on. And if by not having sound deadening troubles anyone then just pull the seats out and stick some in under the carpet. Voila! Pista with F8 sound deadening. I sure know which one is going to drive better - be more fun- and put a bigger smile on your face. You can thank me later.

    PS. And if the stripes don't fit ones persona then just get the stripes sanded off. Or pick one up w/o stripes.
     
    AlfistaPortoghese likes this.
  12. Pis7a2020

    Pis7a2020 Formula Junior

    Dec 17, 2019
    665
    Pista is a special car that is extremely track oriented. You trade comfort and refinement for precision, rawness, and a tool that would do very well on a track. Also, to many, the Pista is one of the most beautiful modern Ferraris, me included. Additionally, the rumor is that there will be no special version of the F8, so that makes the Pista much more special IMO.

    Do I like the F8, hell yes, but then again, I love almost all Ferraris. However, would I take one over a Pista? No.

    Would I get one as my “daily”’Ferrari? Yes, of course. I’m actually on the waiting list for one.

    The Pista is a long term keeper. The F8 is just something I would keep until the next version comes out.

    Now...all this talk about a Bentley. No, just no.

    I have a 2019 Flying Spur V8S, also known as the “Old Man”. It’s the most comfortable car I have ever had the pleasure of driving. It’s an isolating experience that fragments me away from the craziness outside of the car. The leather is at lest 2-3 levels above just about every car that I have owned, especially when you have the Mulliner package. The craftsmanship of the interior is the best that I have seen. Bentley makes amazing interiors. The “Old Man” is the car that I use to de-stress and reflect on things. Also, while not a race car, it moves. If you want comfort and luxury, Bentley is a great choice. Image Unavailable, Please Login


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  13. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie
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    #288 Shadowfax, Apr 4, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2020
    I wouldn't say Pista is extremely track oriented at all. A Gt2 has a more animalistic and savage track car feel to it on the road than a Pista which in most ways could easily be mistaken for a regular road going version spiced up a little along with with a bit of fancy body work and a stripe.

    Don't get me wrong Pista is very quick and capable and behaves sharp as one would expect a Ferrari to deliver yet is no less livable as a dd against my 488 save for the sound deadening which kinda works against it in some ways. No one is saying the F8 isn't a great car but driving one after a Pista the F8 is a bit a wet blanket in comparison....which is where the Bentley comment comes in....as it rolls around like a drunken sailor vs Pista which sits flat yet equally compliant and sharp where you'd expect it to be with no real sacrifice anywhere. So where is this sacrifice again in the comfort? The seats are the same. Oh you mean the sound deadening? - like big deal. And at least Pista's engine sounds angry as it rises toward the red like what you'd expect in a Ferrari rather than a smooth rounded off sound of a Bentley v8 which sounds like it has no real crescendo even when it bounces off the limiter. You expect these (certain) things as standard sensation in a Ferrari where in a Bentley you accept that these things get polished out for the gentleman in a suit driving Miss Daisy.:D
     
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  14. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie
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    #289 Shadowfax, Apr 4, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2020


    I'm glad someone agrees it's not the track tool it's made out to be. Pista is very much a Ferrari road car and drives like a road one should. This further reinforces F8 as being in the category stated previously ......Bentley, Aston, Jag etc. Fast as it is, it is what it is. Soft. Too soft.
     
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  15. tickerhound

    tickerhound Formula Junior

    Sep 17, 2016
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    IL
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    Mark
    The Pista also has Lexan on the engine hatch as does the Speciale.
     
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  16. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
    4,839
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    My bad, I failed to notice it.
     
  17. Coincid

    Coincid F1 Rookie

    Dec 9, 2014
    3,577
    Canada
    Firstly, I never claimed that someone who is 6'-6" can fit comfortably in a Performante. I did state that my son in law who is 6'-3' and weighs 240 lbs has no issue fitting into the car. I have owned an F430 which renders your assertion that I have never owned a Ferrari another of your false statements as is your questioning my ownership of the Performante. Your additional statement of my short drives is another misleading comment. I have in previous posts documented these "short drives". The 720S was driven on 2 separate occasions over a 3 hour period encompassing, highways, city streets, twisting, quiet country roads and an isolated industrial area. For me, I do not require more driving experience in order to come to a purchasing decision and be capable of discerning the salient driving characteristics of the car and deciding whether the car comports to my preferences and priorities. I do not find it necessary to purchase the vehicle to gain more experience to conclude whether the car meets my requirements. The reason I have not as yet purchased a McLaren is due to the fact that no model has compelled me to do so. Perhaps it is time you gave it a rest with your false accusations, and demeaning comments.
     
    Ash Patel likes this.
  18. Gh21631

    Gh21631 F1 Veteran
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    Feb 24, 2011
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    East
    Good video. I intend to have mine lowered as well, I am not sure if I will mess with the alignment though.
     
  19. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

    May 29, 2019
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    Full Name:
    A.B
    Exactly. Sure it is nice with lap times and all the rest of it, but it boils down to how the car actually feels. Does it feel lighter, more nimble, more planted, more connected and direct. That's all what makes a sports car feel the way it does.

    Something else worth noting. If we debate lap times, it's just as important to factor in how the car will work for a well trained amateur driver. It might very well be the case that the Pista will be the faster and better handling car in the hands of the seasoned track rat. Lastly, and this is important when talking about the Friorano times. One thing the Pista has compared to the F8, is the ability to run the MPSC2R. The F8 and Pista times were both set with "normal" MPSC2 rubber and alloy wheels on both cars. Just imagine how that difference in time between the F8 and Pista will grow if you put the MPSC2R rubber on it and CF wheels. Then the F8 will not know what hit it. The fact that the Pista chassis has been tuned to handle the MPSC2R tyres is one very important detail that tells us a lot about how different those two cars actually are.

    The F8 and Pista are simply not the same cars and never will be.
     
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  20. Pis7a2020

    Pis7a2020 Formula Junior

    Dec 17, 2019
    665
    While very track oriented, it’s still a road legal car that has to perform as one. A drive in a Challenge car, even an older one, makes one quickly realize that a Pista or any other real road car for that matter, is not a race car.

    I mean if a Pista is not track oriented, then what is? The only thing that comes to mind is a GT3RS and GT2RS.

    However, if one wants a real track weapon, get a Challenge car or Porsche Cup car.




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  21. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie
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    #296 Shadowfax, Apr 4, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2020
    Watch 8.50 on.

    PS I find the 2rs more of track set up vs the Pista which is more of a road car set and you feel it on both road and track. Maybe the italians need to recruit the boys from weissach next time for their track special.

    https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/a23621067/porsche-911-gt2-rs-vs-gt3-cup-track-battle/
     
  22. Coincid

    Coincid F1 Rookie

    Dec 9, 2014
    3,577
    Canada
    The entire discussion about Pista vs F8 might be missing the essential function and purpose of the 2 cars. All super cars involve compromise in driving dynamics and ultimate performance with useability, practicality and comfort. Therefore, for those who never take their cars on a track, it is clear that the F8, which is designed to be an accomplished and exciting road car, would be the better choice. For those who purchase their car for primary track use, the Pista would unquestionably be the superior option since it was designed with the emphasis placed on track performance. The grey area, would be for those who occasionally but infrequently race their cars. The quandary would revolve around the question- would the inevitable compromise in practicality and comfort of road use of the Pista justify its purchase over the F8 whose raison d'etre is stellar road performance? These are issues decided by personal preferences.
     
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  23. Jo Sta7

    Jo Sta7 F1 Rookie
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    Oct 13, 2015
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    interesting how just .5 inches lower makes the car look way better. I guess their is hope for the F8 ride height!
     
  24. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

    May 29, 2019
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    The GT3RS is very track focused for a street car. More than most I would say. It has to do with the fact that the demographic for these cars are quite different. You have had a large group of people for many years, who rigorously track their Porsches and tinker with them. The Ferrari world is different. Some track a lot, but still very few do anything in terms of setup. But the majority do not track and many are average normal drivers at best. Ferrari caters to a different crowd with their VS cars than Porsche do with their RS cars. That being said, I'm sure a Pista can be set up even more focused. I think the following would be a good starting point.

    Novi springs for added springrate and less chance of bottoming out.
    2.1 degrees of camber front
    2.0 degrees of camber rear
    1.2 degrees of toe in front
    2.0 degrees of toe in rear
    15 mm lowering compared to stock
    43/57 weigth bias to get a bit more front end bite
     
  25. galileo

    galileo Formula Junior

    May 20, 2011
    333
    Just to get back in track, I have a lead on a 2020 Pista Spyder Bianco Fuji/Red $529k msrp. If anyone is interested please txt or call at 917-282-3896
     

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